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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
As more people get the new Yamaha receivers I thought it would be great if people would post there auto-eq results. It will be a nice gauge to see how flat your room/speaker response is. There are 4 different auto-eq setting options "flat,low,mid,high. The flat response results arent really needed as this option doesnt eq your front speakers.Also list your speakers and room dimensions.


OK, I have NHT T5/M5'S up front and for my sides/rears I have citation 7.3's set to bipole mode. My room size is about 15X14.


FRONT LEFT-LOW .... FRONT LEFT-HIGH.... CENTER-LOW.... CENTER-HIGH

80HZ -3.5,,, , 80 -3 ,,, , 63HZ +6,,, , 80 -6

125 -2 ,,,,, , 125 -2 ,,, , 80 -5.5,,, , 500 +3.5

250 +3.5,,, , 250 +3 ,,, , 200 +4,,, , 630 -3.0

400 +3.5,,, , 500 -3 ,,, , 250 -2,,,,, , 800 +2

500 -3,,,,,, , 1KHZ -3 , , 500 +3.5,,, , 2.5 +3

600 +4, ,,,,, , 2 +3,,, ,, , 630 -4 ,,,,,,, 13 -2

1KHZ -3,,, , 16.0 +3.5 ,,,,, ,,,,, ,,,,,, , 13KHZ -2.5


FRONT RIGHT-LOW .... FRONT RIGHT-HIGH

80 -4.5 ,,,,,,,, 80 -4

100 +4 ,,,,,,,, 100 +4

250 +3.5,,,,,,,, 250 -3.0

1.3 -2 ,,,,,,,, 1.3 -2

2.5 +2 ,,,,,,,, 2.5 +2

16 +2.5 ,,,,,,,, 16 +2.5


My NHT's and the room response seem to be pretty flat (I guess?) across the board. My citation 7.3s listed below are not as flat and fluxuations are greater.



SURROUND LEFT-MID....SURROUND RIGHT-MID

63 HZ +5.5 ,,,,,,,,, 100 +4.5

160 -4,,,,,,,, 160 -2

250 +3 , ,,,,,,, 250 +3.5

315 +5,,,,,,,, 315 +4.5

1KHZ -4.5 ,,,, ,,, 800 -2.5

1.6 +2,,,,,,,, 2.0 +4

2.5 +6 ,,,, ,,,,, 2.5 +5


SURROUND BACK LEFT....SURROUND BACK RIGHT

160 -6.5 ,,,,,,,,, 125 -5

200 +6 ,,,,,,,,, 800 +2

250 -4 ,,,,,,,,, 1.0 -4

800 -2.5,,,,,,,,, 2.0 +6

2.5 +3.5 ,,,,,,,,, 2.5 +4.5

6.3 +5.5,,,,,,,,, 6.3 +6


My couch is only two ft from the back wall (sitting on a shelf behind the couch about 1 ft above ear level) and therfore my back speakers are closest to the mic (about 4 ft away). My sides are about 6 ft away on each side and mounted on the wall about 5 ft up. My front 3 speakers are about 8 ft away. I should mention that I put the mic on a stand at my sitting position at ear level.


Well this Sucks, I cant get the spaces between my numbers to appear correctly, So I apologize for all the comma marks I used to seperate the columns. Oh well, I hope you get the point.:confused:
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Come on Yamaha owners... Its a little work to write the results here but having a record of it for others to see would be very informative. Plus think of it this way, you will always have a place with the stored information so you can come back and view down the road to see how your system responce changes as new equipment is bought.
 

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You can use the code tags to preserve spaces. Like this except use [ ] brackets instead of { }:


{code}

your text

{/code}


Displays like this:

Code:
Code:
aaaa             bbbbbbbb          cccccccc
 

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Front Left:
Flat............Mid...........Mid............High

100 -5.......100 -5.......100 -5.......100 -5.5

200 +6......200 +5......400 -4.5....125 +4

400 -4.......400 -3.5....1k +4.........200 +5

1k +4.5.....400 -2.......1.6k +2.5...400 -4.5

5k +2........1k +4........2k -2..........1k +2.5

6.3k +5.....6.3k +4.....4k -2..........6.3k +3.5

8k -5.........10k -4.5....8k -5..........10k -4.5


Center:
Flat............Mid...........Mid............High

160 -3.......160 -3.......160 -2.5.....500 -4

250 +4......250 +4......250 +3.......1.3k -3

500 -4.......315 +3......500 -3.5.....4k +2

1.3k -2.5...500 -3.5....630 +4.5.....5k +6

1.6k +3.....1.3k -2.......1.3k -3.......6.3k +3

3.2k +5.....3.2k +6......3.2k +6......6.3k -3

5k +5........5k +5.........5k +2.........16k +4.5


Front Right:
Flat............Mid...........Mid............High

63 -5.........63 -5.5.......63 -5.5.......63 -5.5

125 +6......125 +6.......125 +6.......400 -2

250 +6......250 +6.......315 +5.......6.3k +4

800 +4......400 -2.5.....400 -2........10k -4.5

6.3k +4.5..800 +4.......800 +3.......13k -2.5

10k -5.......6.3k +4.......6.3k +4......16k +4

.................10k -4.5......10k -4.5.....16k +2


Surround Left:
Flat............Mid...........Mid............High

125 +6......125 +5.5.....200 -2.5.....125 +6

400 -6.......125 +3........500 -5.5.....400 -4.5

1k +6........400 -5.5......1k +6..........1k +6

1.6k +2.5..1k +6..........1.3 k +4......2k +4

8k +3.5.....2k +2.5.......2k +4.5.......6.3k +3

10k -5.......8k +4..........8k +3..........8k +4

.................10k -5.........10k -5.........10k -5


Surround Right:
Flat............Mid...........Mid............High

80 +5........80 +4.........315 -2........80 +4.5

400 -5.......400 -5........630 -3.5.....400 -4.5

800 +6......800 +5.5....800 +6.......800 +6

1k +4........1k +3.5......1.3k +6.......1.3k +6

1.3k +6......1.3k +6.....4k -4...........5k -6

5k -6.........5k -5.5.......5k -4.5........6.3k +5

16k -3.......16k -3........16k -3.........16k -3


I've got some old Infinity floorstanding fronts, an Atlantic Tech center (both being replace in two days with Axiom) and Axiom quadrapole rears. It seems the closer the speaker the more stable the values. I'm guessing when a speaker is further away ANY backround noise affects the values. When the new speakers come I'm gonna do the YPAO at night. In the end I stayed with the high setting.
 

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Don't you guys have anything better to do???


BTW, PSUJohny, if you ever get a hankerin' to replace your surrounds, check into the NHT L5's. I have a T5 setup as well, and just installed some L5's, and it really rounds out the system. They match the M5's very, extremely, super, outstanding (I think you get the point) well.
 

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So, how do I find this information after running the auto YPAO cycle?


I do recall seeing the settings displayed quickly (a few seconds per screen) while the automatic tests were running. I ran the tests in 'FLAT' mode, and it set large mains, small rears and center, 90hz crossover.


The only EQ setting I recall was -10db at 100hz. Either my room is very, very bad (likely) or perhaps I need to decrease the sub amp's volume level.
 

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So, what exactly do the flat, low, mid and high settings do. Looking at the posted numbers, I don't see any obvious differences in either the frequency ranges or the amount of correction. From Erik's numbers the flat setting clearly corrects the mains, contrary to previous assertions.
 

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Sheesh,it sure sounds like a complicated machine to the layman.
 

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The low flat is to avg. the frequency respons of all speakers; the low is to give priority to bass frequencies, mid to mid frequencies and high to high frequencis. Flat adjusts everything equally and is reccomended if all speakers are of the same quality. They also have a front setting that adjusts frequency response in accordance to your front speakers. I don't think these choices make the YPAO adjust more of the high frequencies per say, but equalizes whatever it has to to keep the lows, mids, or highs sounding the best. I just chose what I liked. As far as the question about having enough time to write the settings down, you first need to have Step enabled in the the Auto Setup menu. When the results are displayed after the EQ check they will dissapear, so what you need to do is push the up or down keys to cycle from speaker to speaker. But you need to cycle quick enough so the results don't dissapear. There is enough time to get a couple values filled in (I made a spreadsheet so I only have to fill in the values), but I don't know they didn't just have a set display screen for the reslults.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
quote:

From Erik's numbers the flat setting clearly corrects the mains, contrary to previous assertions.


My mistake, its the "FRONT" setting that doesnt eq your fronts,not the "FLAT" setting.


quote:

So, what exactly do the flat, low, mid and high settings do. Looking at the posted numbers, I don't see any obvious differences in either the frequency ranges or the amount of correction


It seems that there are a couple of extra bandwidths being adjusted in a particular bandwidth depending on your priority setting.



Jonnyv,


Glad to hear that the nht L5s are working out for ya. Right now Im happy with the citations but will keep your comments about the L5s in mind.
 

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From user's posted settings, the parametric EQ of YPAO appears to mostly work in 1/3 octave steps(called the "Q" or filter width) which IMO is really too wide a filter width to offer what I would call Quality Parametric EQ filtering.


I find quality Parametric EQ requires a minimum or 1/12 octave filter widths (1/60 of an octave is even better). The objective of parametric EQ is to typically reduce an unwanted peak, you need a narrow filter width to only reduce the offending peak frequency and not color or alter adjacent frequencies.


Parametric EQ with 1/3 octave wide filters can have a large (negative) effect on adjacent frequencies.
 

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Bruce,


While I agree that 1/3 octave Q is not as good as 1/12 or 1/60, we need to keep it in perspective. The Pioneer Elite MCACC is on the order of 1.5 octaves (assuming the 7-band) or 2 octaves (for the 5 band), so the Yamaha solution is an enormous improvement.



Bill
 

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Bill,


The Pioneer MCACC is not a Parametric but a graphic EQ, the same as the Yamaha graphic EQ.


I'm sorry, if you are going to implement parametric EQ then do it right and don't try to pull a fast one on the consumer. I see this as mostly just pure Marketing BS, but a step in the right direction.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by erikb333
There is enough time to get a couple values filled in (I made a spreadsheet so I only have to fill in the values), but I don't know they didn't just have a set display screen for the reslults.
From the results screen (the one it waits for input on, when not in "step" mode) you can use one of the arrow buttons to review all of the settings. Unfortunately, one of the other arrow buttons also cancels the whole setup process, and it seems pretty counter-intuitive about which button does what.


I don't know how many times I've gotten deep in the 2400's menu structure, only to hit the wrong key, and find myself back at the top level, having to navigate my way back down. It may not be the worst UI I've ever worked with (after all, I have to work with Unix on a daily basis :D ), but it could certainly be more intuitive.


Has anyone had a chance to see if the "Receiver Editor" contains the PEQ information? Seems unlikely, since the software's download page doesn't even mention the 1400/2400 yet, and they are the first Yamaha's with this feature. Of course, if the editor does read/write the PEQ data, it should be a cinch to copy it over to Excel. It should also be possible for anyone/everyone to post the editor files of their receiver settings. I probably won't get to play with the editor (or post my settings) until next weekend (I need a longer serial cable).




Hey erikb333, how about attaching your spreadsheet to this thread?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
quote:

I see this as mostly just pure Marketing BS, but a step in the right direction.


If its a step in the right direction then how can it be pure BS ?


I understand That the Yamaha eq needs to be improved upon (it IS only first generation) but it dam sure is a step in the right direction and I applaud Pioneer and Yamaha for carrying the load when other manufactures are sticking their head in the sand.


PS. It may be BS but in my room I absolutely prefer the sound with the eq ON.
 

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Quote:
I'm sorry, if you are going to implement parametric EQ then do it right and don't try to pull a fast one on the consumer. I see this as mostly just pure Marketing BS, but a step in the right direction.
Bruce, are you suggesting that there is absolutely no need for a PEQ if it does not meet the highest criteria? So the PEQ in the YPAO is of zero value and that it does nothing to the ultimate sound?


Anyway, here are the results of my EQ tests and equipment:

Yamaha RX-V1400 (prepro use only)

(2) AMC 2100-N (150W X 3)

Main L/R Wharfedale Emerald 97s

Center BIC DV62CLR

Surround B & Surround L/R - Klipsch Quintets


As you can see I have mixed and matched my speakers to have a good mix between movies and music and through my own tests I concluded that having the horn loaded quintets for movies does add to the movie soundstage.

I adjusted some settings manually on the receiver and they are;

Distance

Size

Crossover at THX (80 Hz.)


OK here are the results:


Main Left: ,,,, Main Right: ,,,, Center:

80Hz +3 ,,,, 63Hz -2.5 ,,,, 80Hz -3.5

100Hz -2.5 ,,,, 100Hz +6 ,,,, 160Hz +5.5

315Hz +2 ,,,, 315Hz +3 ,,,, 400Hz -4.5

400Hz +6 ,,,, 500Hz +5.5 ,,,, 2.5Khz +2.5

630Hz -3.5 ,,,, 800Hz -2 ,,,, 4Khz +4.5

2Khz +3.5 ,,,, 2Khz +4 ,,,, 6.3 +5.5

10Khz -3 ,,,, 10Khz -4 ,,,, 10Khz -10



Surr L: ,,,, Surr R: ,,,, Surr B:

100Hz +6 ,,,, 200Hz -6 ,,,, 100Hz +3.5

200Hz -10.5 ,,,, 200Hz -2 ,,,, 125Hz -2.0

200Hz -2.0 ,,,, 315Hz +4 ,,,, 200Hz +2.0

315Hz +2 ,,,, 500Hz +2 ,,,,250Hz -2.5

400Hz +6 ,,,,1.6Khz -5.5 ,,,, 315Hz +5.0

1.6Khz -4.5 ,,,, 4Khz +6 ,,,,1.6Khz -5.5

10Khz -2 ,,,, 10Khz -2 ,,,, 6.3Khz +6.0



Okay, I wish writing down the results here was as easy as the actual YPAO (LOL). For anyone who doubts the ability of this test without running it at home I want to say to them to try it out first and be negative next. I don't thnk this test is BS because no matter how much I adjusted the speaker levels with the VE disc and a SPL meter, I never felt that my music and HT was truly balanced and correct.

While this YPAO might not live up to the standards of those that sek the utmost perfection, it definitely has improved the way I hear my music and HT and with the mixing and matching of my speakers to boot. My room is very accoustically challenged and I believe YPAO has done a tremendous improvement. I am not saying that only because I am "Stuck" with this receiver or something because I still have 2 weeks to return this unit. I really am impressed at the results.
 

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Nick,


No I'm not saying YPAO has zero value. As you have found, non-timber matched HT speaker sets may benefit. So for those users with mis-matched HT speaker setups this might provide some benefit.


My main concern is the lack of truly useful Parametric EQ for the bass frequencies which all HT rooms have problems with. Proper bass parametric EQ would really be a useful feature for everybody.



If I was using the receiver's amplifiers, I would be worried about clipping when listening at close to Dolby reference levels with these EQ settings (I know you have a separate amp- for LCR).


Front Right 100Hz +6dB

Center 160Hz +5.5dB

Surround Left 100Hz +6dB
 

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Quote:
No I'm not saying YPAO has zero value. As you have found, non-timber matched HT speaker sets may benefit. So for those users with mis-matched HT speaker setups this might provide some benefit.
Agreed, I found the results very pleasing immediately!

Quote:
If I was using the receiver's amplifiers, I would be worried about clipping when listening at close to Dolby reference levels with these EQ settings (I know you have a separate amp- for LCR).
Actually I am using external amps for all six channels but since you brought up an interesting point I would like to use the 1400's amps and see what result I achieve in terms of clipping.
 

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I have a 2400 driving Tannoy D60 front left and rights and a Tannoy D6C center, two Tannoy D5(?) surrounds and a PSB sub. The results after running YPAO in automatic FRONT mode were excellent. This is an amazingly simple system to setup. It seems to actually work as advertised.


But I'm afraid I don't have the eq results to post. It would be nice if the Yamaha made this information available on demand. It seems to want to offer every other possible parameter for inspection.
 
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