[mpgxsvcd]

I know there are several other threads about the HDMI audio not working with the newer Yamaha RX-V663 receivers. However, I think we need one place to explicitly define the problem and tell us what we can do about it.


Here is what I have gathered so far(please note that this information has only been tested for Windows XP) I do not know if the same problem exists for Windows Vista:


Info updated 1:48 PM EST 8-12-08.


I received my Gefen DVI Detective Several Days ago and sure enough it corrected the “receiver being recognized as DVI” problem.
I am now able to get 7.1 Channel 96 Khz/24 Bit PCM with Windows XP and the HDMI output of my VisionTek 4850 to my Yamaha RX-V663 receiver. However, I still can not get DD and DTS to pass straight through the HDMI connection. I think the Gefen device is not setup properly to allow those.

1. None of the ATI stand alone video cards(2600, 3850, 4850….etc) will output “ANY” audio over HDMI to the Yamaha RX-V663 and RX-V863 receivers.


2. The EDID extended block does not appear correctly when connecting the ATI HDMI video cards to the RX-V663 or RX-V863 receivers. This causes the ATI Catalyst drivers to recognize the receiver as a DVI device that does not accept audio instead of an HDMI device.


3. Most people have been able to get the audio to work when the video card is connected directly to their TVs via HDMI bypassing the Yamaha RX-V663. However, this is not what we bought the card for now is it?


4. The "HDMI set" option on the Yamaha receivers is intended to allow you to pass the audio on to the TV for decoding or opt for the receiver to decode it. Set the “HDMI set” value to RX-V663 to allow the receiver to decode the audio. Set it to other to pass the audio on to the TV. I have tried both settings neither will work.


5. The RX-V661 and RX-V1700 have been shown not to have this problem.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post14162725


6. ATI released a fix in the latest Catalyst 8.6 drivers to resolve this issue. However, this does not correct the issue for the RX-V663 and RX-V863 receivers. The subsequent 8.6 Hotfix does not resolve the issue either.
http://support.ati.com/ics/support/d...asp?deptID=894


7. The Gefen DVI Detective Plus will likely correct this problem. However, it cost about $145 plus shipping with the necessary cables and YOU MUST CALL THEM AND ASK THEM TO PROGRAM IT FOR USE WITH A COMPUTER OR HDCP WILL NOT WORK. Gefen claims to have fixed their HDCP issue and they shipped mine on 7-26(1 month after I ordered it). I won't be able to post a review of it until the week of August 8th do to a long needed vacation.
http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=4715


8. Yamaha was notified of this problem in “Yamaha Electronics Support Case #00533759” on 6/25/08.


9. ATI was notified of this problem on 6/23/08 in ticket number 737-1346652.


10. The Onkyo 606 exhibited a similar problem and the instructions in the following post corrected the issue.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...4&postcount=68


11. I have confirmed that either DVI output from the ATI 4850 can be used to transmit audio via an HDMI connection. My TV had sound when using either connection. I can't confirm 7.1 audio from either DVI output though. My TV doesn't support 7.1 so I don't know if that works on both.


12. I have confirmed that a generic DVI to HDMI adapter/cable will not allow the video card to transmit audio over HDMI.


13. The Denon 3808 had similar problems. However, the latest "Denon" firmware update corrected the issue.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=458


14. RealTek released version R1.97 of their HD Audio Codec. You can get it at one of the servers below. (I just tried the new RealTek codec version 1.97. It did not resolve the receiver issue). It does work very well with my TV though.
ftp://152.104.238.19/pc/audio/HDMI_R197.exe
ftp://202.65.194.212/pc/audio/HDMI_R197.exe
ftp://202.65.194.211/pc/audio/HDMI_R197.exe


15. The Catalyst Beta 8.7 drivers do not resolve the problem for the Yamaha RX-V663 receiver.

If you want this to get fixed then please do two things.


Submit a Yamaha support ticket at the link below. Be really nice and just explain that you are unable to get audio from your ATI video card because the RX-V663 is not recognized as an HDMI device. Let them know that all other brands of receivers work with the ATI cards but none of the newest Yamaha receivers work with it. Also let them know that the older RX-V661 and V1700 receivers work.

https://www.yamaha.com/yec/customer/...l?CTID=5010270


Also please submit a ticket to ATI at the link below. You will have to register with them but this will be the fastest way to get a resolution.

http://support.ati.com/


The more people that email them the faster the problem will get resolved.


Here is a thread that discusses the problem
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1033533

 

[Wo0zy]

Just need to add that the Yamaha isn't the only AVR brand with this problem. There are reports of some Onkyo and HK AVR's as well, not to mention some HDTV's.


It would be nice to know why older models don't seem to have the problem (something must have changed) but the focus must be on ATI support. NVIDIA and Intel systems don't exhibit the same symptoms (at least not when connected to the Onkyo 606).


Wo0zy

 

[mpgxsvcd]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Wo0zy /forum/post/14164916


Just need to add that the Yamaha isn't the only AVR brand with this problem. There are reports of some Onkyo and HK AVR's as well, not to mention some HDTV's.


It would be nice to know why older models don't seem to have the problem (something must have changed) but the focus must be on ATI support. NVIDIA and Intel systems don't exhibit the same symptoms (at least not when connected to the Onkyo 606).


Wo0zy

Just provide links to specific posts where someone had a problem with a different recevier, TV, or video card and I will add that to the post above.

 

[Wo0zy]



Quote:
Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd /forum/post/14164922


Just provide links to specific posts where someone had a problem with a different recevier, TV, or video card and I will add that to the post above.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=757731 is the main one I know about.


Your Sony TV's Malformed EDID here should probably get a mention too.


Hope these are helpful


Wo0zy

 

[hlkc]

mpgxsvcd,


Good idea and hope there are enough people to raise their hand in this thread and you can just let Yamaha and/or ATI knows

 

[mpgxsvcd]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Wo0zy /forum/post/14164973

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=757731 is the main one I know about.


Your Sony TV's Malformed EDID here should probably get a mention too.


Hope these are helpful


Wo0zy

I am not sure I understand enough about the EDID value to make a definitive statement about it. Could you do a statement about it that says us "exactly" what the EDID is telling us?

 

[mpgxsvcd]

Hey I got one of the Catalyst testers to help out!

http://www.rage3d.com/board/showpost...12&postcount=4

 

[hlkc]



Quote:
Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd /forum/post/14165294


Hey I got one of the Catalyst makers to help out!

http://www.rage3d.com/board/showpost...12&postcount=4

Hope they can able to crack it for you - g luck!!!

 

[bokis]



Quote:
Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd /forum/post/14165294


Hey I got one of the Catalyst testers to help out!

http://www.rage3d.com/board/showpost...12&postcount=4

That would be nice, I used this form 10 days a go about the dvi-hdmi problem, no respons so far
https://www.yamaha.co.jp/info/global/with_computer.php


I spoke to Yamaha rep/tech this week heir in Sweden he should conntact

some other rep/tech in Europe, pointed him to this forum, but tomorrow he will

get a new call, this simpley not satisfactory, but I´m perhaps not the best person to speak aboute this problem, I will try to get his email so he can get

some thing to read

links/posts please to the Yamaha rx-v663 problem!

 

[Wo0zy]



Quote:
Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd /forum/post/14165196


I am not sure I understand enough about the EDID value to make a definitive statement about it. Could you do a statement about it that says us "exactly" what the EDID is telling us?

I'm not the EDID expert here (learnt everything from reading and from our very own Archibael) however, I'll have a go for you and if Archi is watching he can add to it.


Any HDMI compliant sink must advertise an EDID version 3 extension block. The presence of the extension block is confirmed in the standard EDID block by byte 126 (counting the first byte as zero). If this byte is "01" this indicates that an extension block is present.


A version 3 extension block contains several bits of information specific to an HDMI sink. The first is the Vendor Specific Data Block (VSDB). This can contain anything a vendor considers important but MUST be populated for a device to be considered HDMI compliant. The other data which I would consider important to this issue is the Short Audio Descriptors (SADs) which are also contained within the 1.3 extension block. These 3-byte identifiers "describe" the audio formats supported by the sink. Futher informatin can be found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EDID .


The bottom line is that unless the 1.3 extension block is correctly identified and read, the source does not know if a sink is HDMI or not and even if there is an "assumption" of HDMI compliance, there is no way of knowing the audio capabilities of the sink.


Exactly why the ATI drivers are repeating the first EDID block rather than parsing the correct extension block I have no idea but the reports I've seen suggest this may be why we're seeing the problems with people unable to get audio working and why some HDMI devices are incorrectly identified as DVI.


Like I said, this is a rather large and complex topic which I try to "sanitise" in my mind to retain a basic understanding without constantly checking documents. Also, my involvement in this was initially related to DTD's (Detailed Timing Descriptors) rather than audio capabilities and again only to pass on "enough" information for someone else to work with.


Hope this helps but if not please feel free to say so and I'll try and explain things dfferently or maybe get an expert to comment.


Wo0zy

 

[mpgxsvcd]

I tried everything in point 10 above including deleting the registry entries and re-installing. Nothing worked. This problem will not be fixed until either ATI or Yamaha makes a change! Come on keep on them or this card will never work with our receivers.

 

[archer75]



Quote:
Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd /forum/post/14173256


I tried everything in point 10 above including deleting the registry entries and re-installing. Nothing worked. This problem will not be fixed until either ATI or Yamaha makes a change! Come on keep on them or this card will never work with our receivers.

I would return the card. If it's not working as advertised get something else. Either that Asus card when it comes out or the upcoming Intel G45.

 

[mcnabney]

I had contacted Yamaha and have received some replies.


Yamaha: Sorry we don't have any way to check or test video cards to see if they are full HDMI compatible



and when I inquired further I got: This receiver is full HDMI 1.3a compatible


To be honest, I doubted that Yamaha would ever do anything. If it is their fault they will do anything to deflect blame due to the expense of fixing it. So if AMD/ATI can't fix it within the return window I would think that sending the video card back would be the only way. Does Yamaha have issues with every HDMI video source?

 

[Wo0zy]



Quote:
Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd /forum/post/14173256


I tried everything in point 10 above including deleting the registry entries and re-installing. Nothing worked. This problem will not be fixed until either ATI or Yamaha makes a change! Come on keep on them or this card will never work with our receivers.

Including both HDMI inputs? Looks like Renethx has confirmed that he too has found that HDMI In 1 needs to be used on the Onkyo 606's although there's no indication that it should be different to the others.


I'm sure you've already tried this.


Perhaps whatever the difference is between the Onkyo's HDMI In 1 and the other 2 inputs is the key to the problem. If we can find out exactly what it is then we can ask Yamaha a very specific question.


Wo0zy

 

[mpgxsvcd]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Wo0zy /forum/post/14177946


Including both HDMI inputs? Looks like Renethx has confirmed that he too has found that HDMI In 1 needs to be used on the Onkyo 606's although there's no indication that it should be different to the others.


I'm sure you've already tried this.


Perhaps whatever the difference is between the Onkyo's HDMI In 1 and the other 2 inputs is the key to the problem. If we can find out exactly what it is then we can ask Yamaha a very specific question.


Wo0zy

I have tried everything. I am pretty convinced that this problem will not get fixed unless ATI fixes it. I think the Yamaha receiver is HDMI compliant but the ATI drivers are just not recognizing the EDID data correctly.


Anyway, I would say wait for the next ATI drivers around the middle of the month. If those don't work then start taking these cards back to the store. If Visiontek/ATI get a bunch of return complaints they will start listening!

 

[mpgxsvcd]

ATI really needs to get with Yamaha to resolve the issue. Until that happens your only choice to get audio over HDMI with the Yamaha RX-V663 and an ATI card is to buy the ~$140 Gefen DVI Detective Plus with some DVI to HDMI adapters from the link below.


If you order the Gefen DVI Detective Plus please contact Gefen and ask that the device be “programmed for use with a computer”. If you don’t do that the HDCP pass through will not work. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!

http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=4715

 

[Meparch]

Don't you need the DVI/HDMI dongle from the ATi card to get sound out? Not sure if the DVI Detective Plus would work without a lot of adapters in the chain.

 

[mpgxsvcd]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Meparch /forum/post/14191601


Don't you need the DVI/HDMI dongle from the ATi card to get sound out? Not sure if the DVI Detective Plus would work without a lot of adapters in the chain.

Yes you are right! You need a BUNCH of adapters in the chain.


Currently you would have to go DVI out of the computer to the ATI DVI to HDMI adapter, to an HDMI to DVI cable/adapter, to the Gefen DVI Detective Plus, to another DVI to HDMI adapter/cable, to the Yamaha receiver via HDMI, then on to the TV via an HDMI cable!


That is a mouthful and a pain in the @ss! However, theoretically it should work?

 

[bokis]



Quote:
Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd /forum/post/14192615


Yes you are right! You need a BUNCH of adapters in the chain.


Currently you would have to go DVI out of the computer to the ATI DVI to HDMI adapter, to an HDMI to DVI cable/adapter, to the Gefen DVI Detective Plus, to another DVI to HDMI adapter/cable, to the Yamaha receiver via HDMI, then on to the TV via an HDMI cable!


That is a mouthful and a pain in the @ss! However, theoretically it should work?

I´m gone, this over my head and you are right it´s a pain in the a//

But I will welcome any devolpment as off now I do not have a receiver

 

[Meparch]

It could work, it could work.....


God I hate this DRM crap. I need to go pirate a bunch of stuff to make myself feel better now.