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Discussion Starter #1
Hi,


I bought the Z9 nearly three months ago and i have been having great problems with it and MORE SO, with Yamaha. You may find it interesting. (i also posted at Audioholics and possible elswhere to)


Firstly i want to say the Z9 sound GREAT, my issue is not with that. It's the Video processing that's causing major problems!!!


It's been nearly three months now and in that time Yamaha have had to send out THREE units.


We bought the Z9 partly for the Faroudja DCDi processing as it caught our eye from Yamaha's BIG advertising about this feature and other peoples positive views.


The first Unit we got was a dud it terms of video, it didn't even pass the signal through, not Component GUI, nothing. I think that unit was a Pre release on or something like that (who knows, maybe just faulty). We took it to where we bought it (they were a good help), confirmed it there and they sent for a new one for us.


About a week or two later! We finally hear something about a new one coming for us. It eventually arrives. This one seems ok on first appearances, the Component output worker, the GUI was displayed via it, the Processor would turn on and video was displayed. BUT. on closer inspection we saw that what was being outputted was completely unacceptable. Colour bleeding, artefacts, skewed top 20 or so lines, serious flickering etc.

Without going into major detail we tried everything, three different DVD players, and many DVD's (seeing as that's all were concerned with at the momvent, DVD

s, nothing else). We contacted Yamaha Immediately with the help of the purchase store. It took about a week to get ANY reply and all we got then was told that it is our problem, something to do with our TV and sync problems. This was of course to us outrageous (again, i won't write an essay, but we eliminated that it was our TV as i will show further on), eventually again, about a week and a half later of us constantly contacting them trying to get something done we get told that Yamaha have released a Firmware update that will fix all our Problems and that they will send someone to install it.


Well, this was a complete joke in itself! The guy came (very nice bloke), and the first thing he told us was that he'd never done this sort of thing before, and that he had just joined Yamaha and been with them for four weeks!!!!!!!! already the alarm bells were ringing. It got worse, the guy, no offence to him, didn't seem to know how to use a computer, he was on the phone non-stop to a techi in another state asking and getting instructions on how to Un-zip a file!!!! eventually i couldn't stand it and offered my help here and there.

Three hours later (it was meant to take half an hour) even he gave up because he couldn't get the third update to work (there were three separate files to upload). So, ok, we turned on the Z9, put in a DVD and sure enough, as we told Yamaha a week earlier, it didn't Work, in fact it seemed a bit worse to Yamaha's embaressment, the guy saw for himself.


He went away and promised to contact us the following day. Nothing, we had to ring them, and then Two days later we hear something. They tell us it is our TV and it's not being able to handle the signal and we’d have to live with it. If i went through the details, you'd see how 'illogical' this was. So we sent a rather long email to them, completely showing our case and showing that we're not that silly (available to all if wanted). But not only that, other things they were telling us, supposedly explaining the problem was just plain WRONG, contradicted by reviews, Faroudja (like upconverting ALL interlaced signals to 720p regadless of copyright) etc. (Update, they've now correctlyt old us this isn't the case). Yet no matter how much we showed them (from our point of view that it was the Z9 they always were telling us it wasn't. So finally we said we'd take it to the Store, us the equipment and staff there and test it.


So unplugging the z9 (NOT FUN), lugging it around for the fiftieth time (NOT FUN) we set it up at the store and sure enough, the problem came right along with the Z9! It wasn’t our TV as we said. So the store, who had been Extremely helpful over this time, they even contacted Yamaha.


We didn't hear much from anyone after that (just the store, to our appreciation) only got info a few days later that a new Z9 was shipping.


We get the THIRD Z9 a few days ago. This one we didn't bother taking home, we set it up in the store, with a Denon 2200 DVD player (the one we have at home) and a high end Fujitsu Plasma screen. I think it may have worked for about five minutes, then DIED, went to the same problems as we've had for three months now!!! or maybe we were so bent on getting a working one we fooled ourselves :)


Is this normal. This is Yamaha's FLAGSHIP model, and we still haven't got a fully working unit to date as far as we're concerned. Not only that we and the store have had to spend ridicules amounts of time, effort, money and lots of panadols trying to fix this problem because it’s the worst support i've had!


ok, fair enough for their cheap $100 model, but this thing cost $10 000! and for that, over a time span of three months we get told basically it's our problem.

I SHOULD NOT have to prove i am right like I did

I SHOULD NOT have to argue with Yamaha

I SHOULD NOT have to waste my time and money to fix something that Yamaha should, or at least each and correct and Show me!

What happened to the Customer is always right!

I was wondering if anyone else has had problems, and if this is what i am expect from Yamaha (though it’s not like they are a small company and comprised of armatures and they do have a fairly good reputation, even with us originally), and is there anyway or anything i can do to get them to do something and not take three months to do it.


I think I shall also contact the Board of Fair Trading, and see what they say about all this.


If there is any help you guys could give, or any suggestions, I would be most appreciative. There are obviously working Z9’s out there, as the recent Review and other happy buyers have confirmed, all I ask Yamaha is that I get one of those or that the problem be shown, and then corrected in a quick and friendly manner, not a pile of rubbish in the Product and in the Service.


Thanks

If there are any details you need I am most happy to give them. Who know maybe it is our problem (though in my mind i'm convinced otherwise) but in anycase Yamaha should be helping, not hindering! No?
 

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Discussion Starter #2
My equipment:


Denon DVD-2200

Tara Labs Interconnects

LG MW-60SZ12 LCD Projection Monitor

Yamaha RX-Z9 (still of course faulty)


i have also used the following equipment (i don't know exact details, sorry):

Sony Trinitron Wega TV

Fujitsu Plasma screen

2 Toshiba budget DVD players

Phillips DVD player

Panasonic DVD player (RP-82 i think???)


Normally I wouldn't be making such a hoo-hah, I’ve had faulty products before, I understand it happens (though not three in a row), but I have never had this type of response as I have had from Yamaha



If you think I am out of line, or have misunderstood things, don’t understand something PLEASE let me know because I want this problem fixed.


And my Praises to the Denon 2200 so far it has served me well!


Oh yeah, and I’m in Australia but that should make much difference :)
 

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Get your money back and go with something else, don't let yamaha keep the sale, hopefully your dealer will take it back.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Hi, thanks for the reply


I would return the product but things aren't that simple I bought a few other things with the Z9 some of which were for other people and the prices were reduced overall etc. If I really wanted to i probably could get money back but as i said, its not that straight forward though the store probably would do it for me.


But that's not really the point; Yamaha should not behave like they have, in any Country! And that's what I am annoyed about.


The Z9 really is a good unit, sound wise and construction wise, I am quite happy with it in that sense, but all I want and all I ask is for a fully working tested unit (they are out there) along with Yamaha's cooperation, not opposition . It really shouldn't be that difficult! That's what I am more cheesed off about.


But I probably will go with your suggestion if nothing eventually happens within the Week or two, as I am really getting fed up.

But as they say, I ain't going down easily.
 

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Hey, when you put that kind of cash down for a product( actually for any product they sell), Yamaha should find a way to make you happy! That should also go for the place you bought it also. I would talk to them and see what they will do for you.


TC
 

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Well that sounds awful. I would flip out, and most likely would take it back and not buy another Yamaha product. I take offence to that type of service. Fortunately my Z9 is in perfect working order. I had a problem with my HK AVR8000 when I first bought it, I went back to my dealer with it, got a loaner and had a new unit in three days. I also had the same thing happen to an Anthem amp again a new unit in three days no questions asked. These things happen with electronics and how the manufacturer deals with it is very important in my books.

I heard that they were having a lot of problems with the Z9 because of improper packaging, in fact I was told that was the reason for the long delay in getting mine by Yamaha Canada. It could be that the Yamaha distributor in your area is shipping out the improperly packaged units or it could just be that your area recieved a faulty batch.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I deal a lot with computers, and the thing which you find in electronics is exactly what you said. The chips or even the whole unit (had an experience with selling a pile of graphics cards) could be faulty batches which means there will be more than one with a problem, and unless the problem is found, it will always be there.


We suggested this to Yamaha, and I would have thought they'd look into it, Use different DVD players, use different DVD’s, TEST their units, see if they come across a problem or design fault in the Australian model, or come inspect our unit(s) we've had.

But instead they're just feeding us new units in hope of getting lucky with one that works.


If there's anyone here from Yamaha, is there any explanation that could be given for this type of service and problems. I would be most interested to hear it!


Anyways


Thanks for the response

(And thanks for the info on the packaging problem, I don't see any relation to my situation, but I’ll look into it :) could be something there I could work with)
 

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A major problem for these jumbo AVRs is not the receiver itself but the very rough handling that the freight carriers do. In the USA, UPS is one of the major carriers and they are among the worst, boxes are thrown and dropped. And an advanced AVR like the Z9 due to its heavy weight simply cannot be handled roughly.


Just recently I ordered a very expensive Infinity subwoofer and when UPS tried to deliver this the box has huge holes punched in it. Even the UPS driver was embarrassed, it looked like a fork lift had punched right through it. 3 days later another Infinity subwoofer was shipped to me by UPS and this time the box was in even worse condition, so I REJECTED the shipment again.... The 3rd time was a charm, my distributor shipped the subwoofer by Fed-Ex, the box was primo... NO holes.. NO rips..


The Z9 is made in Hamamatsu, Japan and is extremely well built. A couple of things to keep in mind for the Z9..

1. Yamaha sonic quality tends to be a very dry, less musical sound. Be sure to to do crucial listening tests matched up with your target loudspeakers.

2. The Z9 only has global settings for the Faroujda, which means that you can only set it up for 1 source input. As the Faroujda settings vary widely depending upon the source input, and you need to be able to set these independently for each. My regular distributor also carries Yamaha told me that Yamaha engineering is well aware of this issue and will likely have a firmware upgrade to add this feature in the near future.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Hi, M Code


I was curious if I could ask you elaborate or explain a bit on your Point 2 about the global settings and faroudja. It sound interesting, and I’m looking for any way I could offer 'assistance' to Yamaha in getting me a working Z9 and to fix the current problem (I should have to do this though) I wonder if down here they know about all this, they haven't said a word to me, they still say its a problem our end.


Thankyou
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Krazykaj
Hi, M Code


I was curious if i could ask you elaborate or explain a bit on your Point 2 about the global settings and faroudja. It sound intersting, and i'm looking for any way i could offer 'assitance' to yamaha in getting me a working Z9 and to fix the current problem (i should have to do this though) i wonder if down here they know about all this, they haven't said a word to me, they still say its a problem our end.


thankyou
The Faroujda processor has many different modules, these include:

1. Scaler

2. De-interlacer

3. Adaptive noise reduction

4. Film edit mode


Each of these has a specific function for different source inputs, some times they should be ON and other times OFF. For example, Film Edit mode is specifically for a source such as VCR this should be ON, however for off-the-air sources like SAT tuner you want this OFF. For aother source one might want the Adaptive Noise Reduction OFF for like a fast action ice hockey game but ON for watching a lower signal level source which has some visible snow. Also the gains, enhancement adjustments can vary as well. Therefore to optimize the setup for each source input certain functions are ON, and others are OFF, with varying adjustments yet Yamaha only provided 1 setup that will work for ALL source inputs. Here the Yamaha engineers were not thinking about how the Faroujda would likely be used.


You may not be aware but the new HK 7300 now shipping in the USA also includes the Faroujda, and for each source input a separate setup screen is provided by OSD.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thankyou for that info, good for the general knowledge :)

I sort of understood that before, but you made it nice, simple and clear, thanks


I hope that they do update the Z9 to use the features as you have described, but I still hope more that I get a fully working unit and some proper help/support from Yamaha first.


Thankyou again
 

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have you considered emailing the top guy in yamaha, australia?

i'd suggest the board of fair trading AFTER you get a response from him/her.

just copy paste your first message, and make a few changes.

spending the kind of monies that ppl spend on a car, and getting $hit like this is simply unacceptable
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by M Code
1. Yamaha sonic quality tends to be a very dry, less musical sound. Be sure to to do crucial listening tests matched up with your target loudspeakers.
I respectfully disagree, M Code. You are right concerning the previous models of Yamaha receivers, i.e Z1, 3300, etc. IMO they had "dry, less musical sounding" due to using of mPC4570 op amps everywhere, and those op amps produce significant amount of higher odd harmonics, usually perceived by humans as "artificial, metallic" sounding.

In the new line of receivers, as well as majority of other manufacturers, Yamaha uses JRC2068 op amps with significantly lower level of such higher odd harmonics, they are also used in HK receivers, in Denon DVD players (including 5900), and even in quite good professional sound cards like E-Mu 1820M or E-mu 1212M. The op amp OP275, used in Z9 after DACs, is even better (very low level of distortions), it is used also in Lynx Two B (one of the best if not the best sound-card available). Therefore IMO the sounding of the new line of 1400-2400 and Z9 is different, then usual "dry, less musical sounding" of Yamaha receivers, close to the standard and with the "neutral speakers" can be quite musical. It means that if the systems with 1400-2400-Z9 still sound "dry, less musical", then the cause of such sounding is in the speakers, IMO. Therefore your are absolutely right requesting to match up the targeted speakers with THX certified receiver ...
 

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Well, I just had a recent experience with Yamaha in Australia - though not nearly as bad as yours!!


I bought a Yammy RX-V740 3 weeks ago for a great price, as it was the discontinued model.


Took it home, plugged it in, it sounded and worked great. Then the remote control range dropped to about a foot - I daresay everyone can agree that this defeats the purpose of a remote control.


I took it back to the store, and they couldn't work out why that was happening too. Because I'd bought the last unit in the shop, they had to send it to a technician.


I thought, no worries, they'll fix it up, or send out a new one in the next few days. I had to call the store every few days, but still nothing. "they had to send it back to yamaha", "they've got to order it in" etc.


Finally today I found out that they had to order it from overseas (on back-order since about the 20th June), and it would be another two weeks!


I realise that it takes a while for stuff to be shipped from overseas, but that is quite a while! Maybe they have to hand-craft each remote control using only the purest aged plastics in the tibetan mountains or something... :) :) I know it's nowhere near the $10,000 pricetag of a Z9, but $1000 is still quite a lot of money..... Maybe if I'd been kept in the loop I'd be happier, but I've had to make all the phonecalls.


Ah at least the store gave me a replacement remote to use in the meantime (from an older model though, so half the buttons don't work, plus it's not a universal remote) so I can change the volume without having to walk up to it.


Could be a lot worse!
 

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I would not only email the head Yammy guy in Australia your message I'd include all link to all of your threads in all of the forums you've posted this in and tell him these forums are filled with people that are interested in hi-end audio equipment and if your issue isn't resolved swiftly and properly this will reflect very bad for Yamaha in these forum and will result in lost sales and customers.


I read a thread in the DVD player forum in which someone had a problem with their DENON 3800 as bad as the problem you're having now and when the email was sent to the big wig including links to the forum where he posted about his problem they quickly took care of his problem and replaced his 3800 with a 5900 at no extra charge.


Daniel Smith
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I’ll give it a try, thanks


Someone has already contacted a "big wig" :) up your end of the world, I think, on my behalf,


I’ll see what I can do down here. Though I can't find an email address for them, only phone numbers, which, I’ve so far had bad experience with.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
could you also point me to the place where the person and the denon product problem was. for interest sake?


thankyou
 

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I read that probably 6 months ago so now way to now try searching the dvd player forum for 3800 it'll give you a lot of results but the title of the thread should give you a clue of what it's about.


Daniel Smith
 
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