Yamaha Z9
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I don't own it, but I have seen it and heard it. Two words:
KICK ASS!
KICK ASS!
I went from a DSP-A1 to Z9 primarily for PL2 and YPAO. More power and video were bonus features. I was surprised at the difference. After running YPAO, the speakers sounded much more similar and hence the movie sound field was more immersive and imaging better. I primarily use THX for movies.
On music, YPAO made it different (see here for my observations on YPAO http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0&pagenumber=2 )
until I got used to it and bass tweaked (bass too high originally). Now it is much better. Dynamics (partly due to freq response, partly due to power reserves) are improved as well. Video switching is improved vs A1 which had no component switching. Video processor is not as good as my Holo3D set-up but improves TV and VCR sources.
All in all, no regrets.
On music, YPAO made it different (see here for my observations on YPAO http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0&pagenumber=2 )
until I got used to it and bass tweaked (bass too high originally). Now it is much better. Dynamics (partly due to freq response, partly due to power reserves) are improved as well. Video switching is improved vs A1 which had no component switching. Video processor is not as good as my Holo3D set-up but improves TV and VCR sources.
All in all, no regrets.
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7,316 Posts
jr:
Personally, I'm not quite as thrilled with the video scaling. Sure, it works fine but its implementation basically blocks it from use with commercially available DVDs. Anything with CGMS (on component) or Macrovision on S-Video or Composite is blocked from scaling so you are just deinterlacing a 480i source. I've found 2 DVDs that it will scale, AVIA and Video Essentials. For everything else, my progressive scan DVD player does just as well, since it uses a Faroudja deinterlacing chip. It did do a nice job of scaling these two mentioned DVDs, but I don't often watch them and I never watch them for enjoyment!
I suppose one could use it (the Z9) to scale the output of a satellite or cable feed, but frankly, given the quality of the SDTV sources available via these it's not much of an improvement. Scaling a low quality image doesn't improve the picture quality
I think that at this time, the scaling is a great marketing feature, but from a practical perspective it has substantial limitations.
Cheers,
Personally, I'm not quite as thrilled with the video scaling. Sure, it works fine but its implementation basically blocks it from use with commercially available DVDs. Anything with CGMS (on component) or Macrovision on S-Video or Composite is blocked from scaling so you are just deinterlacing a 480i source. I've found 2 DVDs that it will scale, AVIA and Video Essentials. For everything else, my progressive scan DVD player does just as well, since it uses a Faroudja deinterlacing chip. It did do a nice job of scaling these two mentioned DVDs, but I don't often watch them and I never watch them for enjoyment!
I suppose one could use it (the Z9) to scale the output of a satellite or cable feed, but frankly, given the quality of the SDTV sources available via these it's not much of an improvement. Scaling a low quality image doesn't improve the picture quality
I think that at this time, the scaling is a great marketing feature, but from a practical perspective it has substantial limitations.
Cheers,
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1,698 Posts
My Z9 Is Incredable!! I'm using all componant In's and It great for video switching. I have noticed an Improvement on my games. And the sound Is the best I've heard. I do have a question for others. do you guys use the presences speakers? And what surround mode sounds best for you on movies? THX? Dolby enhanced? Movie theater? Thanks.
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Quote:
A couple of points..
1. The scaling feature is limited due to the standards of the DVD consortium not Yamaha. Any standard production DVD produced by the studios w/Macrovision are not compatible. However off-air video signals can be scaled, such as those coming from a Cable box, Sat tuner or Set-top box..
2. The Z9 uses global settings rather than independent, this makes it difficult for the user as setup parameters will vary by source input. For example, the Faroujda setup for a cable box would be significantly different than that of a VCR..
| Originally posted by John Kotches jr: Personally, I'm not quite as thrilled with the video scaling. Sure, it works fine but its implementation basically blocks it from use with commercially available DVDs. Anything with CGMS (on component) or Macrovision on S-Video or Composite is blocked from scaling so you are just deinterlacing a 480i source. I've found 2 DVDs that it will scale, AVIA and Video Essentials. For everything else, my progressive scan DVD player does just as well, since it uses a Faroudja deinterlacing chip. It did do a nice job of scaling these two mentioned DVDs, but I don't often watch them and I never watch them for enjoyment! I suppose one could use it (the Z9) to scale the output of a satellite or cable feed, but frankly, given the quality of the SDTV sources available via these it's not much of an improvement. Scaling a low quality image doesn't improve the picture quality I think that at this time, the scaling is a great marketing feature, but from a practical perspective it has substantial limitations. Cheers, |
1. The scaling feature is limited due to the standards of the DVD consortium not Yamaha. Any standard production DVD produced by the studios w/Macrovision are not compatible. However off-air video signals can be scaled, such as those coming from a Cable box, Sat tuner or Set-top box..
2. The Z9 uses global settings rather than independent, this makes it difficult for the user as setup parameters will vary by source input. For example, the Faroujda setup for a cable box would be significantly different than that of a VCR..
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MCode:
Nothing you've said disagrees with what I've said, but I'll still respond to your points anyway.
Quote:
I care about the usable end result, I'm not going to get in the middle of a political fray between the content providers and the Consumer Electronics Association. Thank you for agreeing that the feature is essentially useless for DVD, and that it's the best quality source that's available.
Scaling SDTV via OTA, cable box or sat feed is again, of poor quality, through no fault of the receiver.
OTA Standard Def has tons of noise, which the scaler can't clean up, cable feeds vary -- an analog signal can look great or terrible, usually it's terrible. Sat feeds of SD material look terrible on a 55" screen, scaling it to 1080i will do a fine job of scaling the artifacts.
Yes, I've used it with all of the above, and it doesn't take a video expert to see the flaws.
Quote:
I didn't even address usability, that's another topic entirely. I do have some substantive critiques in this area, that I'll save for the review.
It isn't a bad product, but depicting the quite limited ability to scale as a great feature is a bit of hype that is, in my experience, unwarranted.
Cheers,
Nothing you've said disagrees with what I've said, but I'll still respond to your points anyway.
Quote:
| 1. The scaling feature is limited due to the standards of the DVD consortium not Yamaha. Any standard production DVD produced by the studios w/Macrovision are not compatible. However off-air video signals can be scaled, such as those coming from a Cable box, Sat tuner or Set-top box.. |
Scaling SDTV via OTA, cable box or sat feed is again, of poor quality, through no fault of the receiver.
OTA Standard Def has tons of noise, which the scaler can't clean up, cable feeds vary -- an analog signal can look great or terrible, usually it's terrible. Sat feeds of SD material look terrible on a 55" screen, scaling it to 1080i will do a fine job of scaling the artifacts.
Yes, I've used it with all of the above, and it doesn't take a video expert to see the flaws.
Quote:
| 2. The Z9 uses global settings rather than independent, this makes it difficult for the user as setup parameters will vary by source input. For example, the Faroujda setup for a cable box would be significantly different than that of a VCR.. |
It isn't a bad product, but depicting the quite limited ability to scale as a great feature is a bit of hype that is, in my experience, unwarranted.
Cheers,
I own a Yamaha RX-Z1 and I like the Yamaha DSP's and the 2 presence channels that I've enjoyed since my Yamaha RX-V2095. I don't like the Z9's everything but the kitchen sink approach (the kitchen sink being DVI &/or HDMI switching). I would have much preferred DVI/HDMI switching to the low end video scaling included.
I do like that the OSD is now viewable via component, YPAO, the adjustable crossovers etc., but I do not understand the remote switch. I like the RAV-2000Z1 remote and feel the offering with the Z9 is a step down.
I am in upgrade mode and plan on selling the Z1 and I am currently looking at alternatives for a possible upgrade.
I do like that the OSD is now viewable via component, YPAO, the adjustable crossovers etc., but I do not understand the remote switch. I like the RAV-2000Z1 remote and feel the offering with the Z9 is a step down.
I am in upgrade mode and plan on selling the Z1 and I am currently looking at alternatives for a possible upgrade.
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Quote:
JOHN:
Anxious to read the review. Thanks for your comments.
| Originally posted by John Kotches MCode: Nothing you've said disagrees with what I've said, but I'll still respond to your points anyway. I care about the usable end result, I'm not going to get in the middle of a political fray between the content providers and the Consumer Electronics Association. Thank you for agreeing that the feature is essentially useless for DVD, and that it's the best quality source that's available. Scaling SDTV via OTA, cable box or sat feed is again, of poor quality, through no fault of the receiver. OTA Standard Def has tons of noise, which the scaler can't clean up, cable feeds vary -- an analog signal can look great or terrible, usually it's terrible. Sat feeds of SD material look terrible on a 55" screen, scaling it to 1080i will do a fine job of scaling the artifacts. Yes, I've used it with all of the above, and it doesn't take a video expert to see the flaws. I didn't even address usability, that's another topic entirely. I do have some substantive critiques in this area, that I'll save for the review. It isn't a bad product, but depicting the quite limited ability to scale as a great feature is a bit of hype that is, in my experience, unwarranted. Cheers, |
Anxious to read the review. Thanks for your comments.
For me the video processing make SD sat signals "watchable" on my projector so it has a value. DVD scaling for me isn't required because my DVD player does it via HDMI and I send my HDTV signal via RGB to the projector. But what this unit does that I really appreciate is upscaling to TWO monitors via dual component outputs. I can use it on both my PJ and my RPTV. Basically it kicks video switching up a notch. For those that don't have an external scaler/processor, to get decent one that's built in to a top notch receiver is worth the hype IMO. Thanks to this unit I've substantially reduced the size of my equipment rack without any loss of preformance anywhere. And on top of that this thing sounds as good or better than anything I've ever heard. And at my age that's a lot of stuff.
John, if I read the tone of your words correctly, I think you've already decided to pan this unit. That somewhat surprises me given my experience with it.
John, if I read the tone of your words correctly, I think you've already decided to pan this unit. That somewhat surprises me given my experience with it.
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rnr:
I would say wait to read the review. My experience with the video scaling is that it's more hype than substance at this point, but there's a heck of a lot more going on than just video scaling with this product.
Why is it that any justified critique is now considered a "pan" or a "bad review"? It seems to me, we should be discussing the shortcomings as well as the positive aspects of every product.
If you just want to sit around and read flowery prose, in a magazine where just about every reviewed product becomes recommended, then steer away from what I write.
Cheers,
I would say wait to read the review. My experience with the video scaling is that it's more hype than substance at this point, but there's a heck of a lot more going on than just video scaling with this product.
Why is it that any justified critique is now considered a "pan" or a "bad review"? It seems to me, we should be discussing the shortcomings as well as the positive aspects of every product.
If you just want to sit around and read flowery prose, in a magazine where just about every reviewed product becomes recommended, then steer away from what I write.
Cheers,
Sorry John, I just got the sense that you were pre-determined that's all, hence the reason I said "if I read.....". Obviously my "Spidey Sense" failed me.
Personally I can't stand the so called "flowery prose" that you speak of. I tend to stay away from periodicals for that very reason. (Not that there's any less of that online.)
I suppose if you're used to seeing top notch scaler/processors, what the Z9 offers is probably below average, yet it is better with SD than the Zinwell I had before, so that increases its' value to me.
Personally I can't stand the so called "flowery prose" that you speak of. I tend to stay away from periodicals for that very reason. (Not that there's any less of that online.)
I suppose if you're used to seeing top notch scaler/processors, what the Z9 offers is probably below average, yet it is better with SD than the Zinwell I had before, so that increases its' value to me.
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7,316 Posts
rnr:
It's no problem -- consider that you hit on a pet peeve of mine and we'll leave it at that.
Without giving away the review, I'll just say that it is a mixed bag -- it has pros and cons like just about every other product I've worked with. If luck and the writing gods are on my side, I'll be able to discuss them as fairly as possible within the context of the review.
Regards,
It's no problem -- consider that you hit on a pet peeve of mine and we'll leave it at that.
Without giving away the review, I'll just say that it is a mixed bag -- it has pros and cons like just about every other product I've worked with. If luck and the writing gods are on my side, I'll be able to discuss them as fairly as possible within the context of the review.
Regards,
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