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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Over the years I've slowly been upgrading my theater room and working on the wife:). I'm at the point where I've moved into a nice 11'x20'x7' dedicated room with low budget 7.1 speakers: L/R Dayton Towers T652, Dayton center, Dayton 1200 sub, sinclair bipolar surrounds and cheap sony for surround backs. I'm currently making and placing acoustic panels throughout the room (already a nice improvement with only 3 panels up).

My wife gave me the go ahead to spend some more money and I really want to buy a nice subwoofer. So, with all that said, budget wise thinking 500 to 900. Initially I like the outlaw ultra12, but then after reading reviews it sounds like the HSU is in a different league, so then I start thinking, okay, go big or go home, so now I'm looking at the VTF 15h which is on clearance. Now I hear HSU has an upgrade (MK2) and that it's worth the money, but is it if the prior model is on clearance?

Lately I've also been reading that people like the PSA models, or at least it's being brought up more frequently...

I've also thought about the SVS but I kinda like how big the HSU is based on an image search (go big or go home:).

Question (finally): So, what is the answer? Again, coming from the dayton sub (which has been great btw), is there a huge difference between the HSU and outlaw? And if so, is there a big difference between the HSU 15 MK2 vs the clearance 15? Lastly, what about these PSA subs? Are they better? Not sure I like the one port option though...but maybe it's better?

Oh, and last thing...will it work to use both the dayton 1200 and my new sub when I get it? Suppose it can't hurt to try...just hate to see a nice subwoofer not being used. I have a Yahmaha receiver (not sure which model, bought it used for cheap) that has 7.2 hookups.

70% gaming, 30% movies.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
How loud are you listening ?

I recommend duals more then 1 big sub
Depends who's home. I get done with work while everyone is away, so I like it loud with deep bone rattling bass when I can.

As for duals, what pair can I buy within my budget of 500-900? I might be able to squeeze 1000$ but don't think the wife will understand my purchasing a speaker for anything more than that. She doesn't get the whole theater thing, but she realizes my son and I love it.
 

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11' x 20' x 7' = 1,540 cu.ft. That's not a very large space. IMO, dual SVS PB-1000s ($950, shipped, for the pair) would work very well in there. And since free return shipping within 45 days is included in the price, an in-home demo costs you $0 if it turns out that you don't like them.


That said, the VTF-15H would be a great sub in that space, but for roughly the same money (a little more on price, a little less on shipping, according to the HSU website), I'd get the VTF-3 MK5. (The VTF-3 also comes with a 30-day trial period; the clearance VTF-15 does not.)


And I wouldn't bother pairing the Dayton sub with whatever sub(s) you get. (Of course, you can always try it - it costs nothing to do so.)
 

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Depends who's home. I get done with work while everyone is away, so I like it loud with deep bone rattling bass when I can.

As for duals, what pair can I buy within my budget of 500-900? I might be able to squeeze 1000$ but don't think the wife will understand my purchasing a speaker for anything more than that. She doesn't get the whole theater thing, but she realizes my son and I love it.
For your budget and space, the VTF-15 on clearance would fit what you're looking for. Two lesser subs in your budget might not extend as deep and if you're listening/watching solo while the gang is away, smoothing the response across several seats is probably not necessary anyway. Especially if the wife doesn't care.

If you're putting up panels, I would guess that you have already checked out SPL meters, REW, etc. If not, it would be a great addition.

PSA has the XV15se, which is similar to the VTF-15H, but without the tuning features.
 

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You know when I first joined this site, did my research, and bought my PSA subs, I thought they were the best thing since sliced bread. After a couple years of settling in and hearing a few different setups(some being diy), I realized that most of these ID subs are going to be close in performance. Actually if you are not pushing the subs limits, one might not be able to discern much if any difference. What I have learned is sub placement and setup is far more critical then which sub has 2db more output @ X frequency.

That being said I would go with dual subs that fit your budget. Then download REW and purchase a measuring mic and start getting familiar how your room interacts with the sub(s). The best sub money can buy can not smooth room modes. I would think a pair of HSU VTF-2 when on sale would make for a solid setup in your room. The Rythmik LV12's also would be great for a 1k budget.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Am I right in thinking lower Hz is better? From what I've read, the dayton doesn't extend that low. I really want an experience with the bass. Although it's a narrow theater, I do have two rows of stadium seating, albeit rarely used except for maybe once every month or so.

The consensus so far seems to be dual subs. I like the SVS suggestion, but I'm concerned about how low the SVS 1000 extends...seems like one HSU or even the outlaw reach lower?

The thing I don't like is having the Dayton and thinking I'm missing some of the deep bass notes...even though it still rumbles my theater seats to a degree.
 

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Ryanweather said:
Am I right in thinking lower Hz is better?
Generally speaking, lower is better for movies, but not so much for music (since the content isn't there).


An in-home demo of dual PB-1000s cost $0. But if that doesn't interest you, don't bother with it.


Get a VTF-3 MK5 and try it out.
- If you don't like it, send it back within 30 days.
- If you like it, you're set.
- If at some point you find that it's not enough, add a second one as soon as budget permits.
 

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Lower is better if you can get enough output to make use of it...google the equal loudness curve. Bass below 20hz is felt more than it is heard. Depending on the room it can take quite a bit of output to pressurize the room below 20hz. Have you ever played a test tone disk and watched the cone movement of a sub? If you have you will notice the sub actually starts to slow down and wobble once you get below 20hz. So it takes a lot of displacement and excursion to move air. Do not expect a single 10 or 12" sub to give you much sub 20hz bass in your budget range. As I previously mentioned a pair of VTF-2's or LV12's would be good in that room down to around 18hz. If you can up the budget and get a pair of VTF-3.5's, that would offer breath taking performance down into the 15hz range in that size room.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
If you're putting up panels, I would guess that you have already checked out SPL meters, REW, etc. If not, it would be a great addition..
No, don't know how to do this. I simply had my wife walk around with a mirror and every spot I could see the speakers I've been hanging panels, even on the ceiling which seems to have the most impact so far. There are some downsides to a narrow theater. My L/R are right up against the side walls (with panels on the wall now). My screen is painted at 120" (which doesn't help acoustics but saves on buying a screen, still looks perfect IMO). The room is a work in progress. I plan on decking this thing out, just tough to get projects done being so busy at my job.

I attached a photo before framing in my screen, building an A/V rack and room in the neighboring closet (now framed into the room) and platform for rear seats. Behind the last row is a large window with blackout drapes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
If you can up the budget and get a pair of VTF-3.5's, that would offer breath taking performance down into the 15hz range in that size room.
Over 1700 shipped...would love to do it but can't. I might be able to do two of the outlaw at their current list price with free shipping. Would that be better than a single HSU VTF 15H? Would that give me bass below 20hz?

BTW, I'm holding off watching the latest Hobbit and a few other movies until I purchase and install my new sub...can't wait! Just want to make the best decision.

So, if you had 1000 to spend right now (and I don't mind waiting for back order), what would you do with my space?
 

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No, don't know how to do this. I simply had my wife walk around with a mirror and every spot I could see the speakers I've been hanging panels, even on the ceiling which seems to have the most impact so far. There are some downsides to a narrow theater. My L/R are right up against the side walls (with panels on the wall now). My screen is painted at 120" (which doesn't help acoustics but saves on buying a screen, still looks perfect IMO). The room is a work in progress. I plan on decking this thing out, just tough to get projects done being so busy at my job.

I attached a photo before framing in my screen, building an A/V rack and room in the neighboring closet (now framed into the room) and platform for rear seats. Behind the last row is a large window with blackout drapes.
It would be a great addition.

There are good tutorials to search for if you have an afternoon available.
 
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Over 1700 shipped...would love to do it but can't. I might be able to do two of the outlaw at their current list price with free shipping. Would that be better than a single HSU VTF 15H? Would that give me bass below 20hz?

BTW, I'm holding off watching the latest Hobbit and a few other movies until I purchase and install my new sub...can't wait! Just want to make the best decision.

So, if you had 1000 to spend right now (and I don't mind waiting for back order), what would you do with my space?
Yes dual Outlaw Ultras would be better then a single VTF-15.1.

The Hobbit has little bass below 30hz.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
If someone buys both of those S15 at the same time Jeremy was saying that he'd actually sell them for $950 for the pair including shipping. That's one hell of a deal.
Will they hit 20hz? Maybe a dumb question, but my Dayton 1200 is rated down to 24hz, same as these. What's the difference then? I really want that deep, almost mean, bass that will have that wow factor during a movie and game.
 

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Will they hit 20hz? Maybe a dumb question, but my Dayton 1200 is rated down to 24hz, same as these. What's the difference then? I really want that deep, almost mean, bass that will have that wow factor during a movie and game.

Yes, dual S-15's would hit about a 102dB 2m ground plain. In room would be quite a bit more. That's pretty decent output for $950 for dual sealed 15's. Of course for the same price you could get the new Echo 15 which should be right around a 108dB at 20hz.
 

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Yes, dual S-15's would hit about a 102dB 2m ground plain. In room would be quite a bit more. That's pretty decent output for $950 for dual sealed 15's. Of course for the same price you could get the new Echo 15 which should be right around a 108dB at 20hz.
In room would be about another 3-6db once you factor in the losses from MLP distance. So dual S-15's would net 105-108db @ 20hz...imo not enough.

A pair of Outlaw Ultras for 1198.00 shipped would net 113-116db @ 20hz...That is adding +2 db to the EX-1 numbers @ data-bass.com. I would go this route as it will pretty much nail reference capability @ 20hz.
 

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In room would be about another 3-6db once you factor in the losses from MLP distance. So dual S-15's would net 105-108db @ 20hz...imo not enough.

A pair of Outlaw Ultras for 1198.00 shipped would net 113-116db @ 20hz...That is adding +2 db to the EX-1 numbers @ data-bass.com. I would go this route as it will pretty much nail reference capability @ 20hz.
None of those have been tested. I really don't think they would behave like you are predicting. I would go for the dual Outlaws in any case.
 

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None of those have been tested. I really don't think they would behave like you are predicting. I would go for the dual Outlaws in any case.
How would they behave then? Do you give them a treat for producing more output, or put them in time out if they do not perform as expected?


If you are going to call me out at least offer some sort of reasoning as to why you think my prediction is wrong. Neither one of those subs need to be tested. Both companies have had subs tested that are similar designs that are either improved upon or slightly less power. It's not rocket science.
 
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