[espbeetle]

OK Antenna Experts, thanks in advance for your help!


Here's the TVFool:
Attachment 148245


We have a ranch style house in central NJ with a few tall trees around the house, but no large buildings. If at all possible I would prefer the antenna not be too big and mount it in the attic. Is that going to be possible? I've got only one TV, a new Panasonic plasma with built in tuner, though a second TV may be added later. Will I need an amp? Fire away...

 

[Tower Guy]



Quote:
Originally Posted by espbeetle /forum/post/16858545


OK Antenna Experts, thanks in advance for your help! We have a ranch style house in central NJ. If at all possible I would prefer the antenna not be too big and mount it in the attic. .

An HBU-22 in the attic is the minimum antenna. Depending on the construction materials you may not need an amp until you add a second TV.


Yet an HBU-22 won't get low band stations WKOB that carries Daystar (religious) and WPXO (Spanish). It will be aimed in the wrong direction for WNJN (PBS #2), WFME (mixed) and WMBC (ethnic). Do they matter to you?

 

[IDRick]

Welcome to the forums! Thanks for posting your tvfool results!


Roof top installs are nearly always better than attic installs. With that said, go ahead and try it out in the attic. You really won't know unless you try... Based on your tvfool results, most of your stations are in the same direction (41 degrees magnetic) and are either high vhf (ch 7, 8, 11, 13) or uhf. There are three low vhf channels (ch 2, 4, 6) also but will require a much larger antenna which most likely eliminates an attic install option.


Given your distance, I would recommend a winegard 7696 antenna. An alternative is to build your own antenna which has excellent uhf reception and some high vhf reception (see "build a uhf antenna" thread in this forum). I am successfully using one these mclapp antennas at my home with greater distances to the towers and lower available signal strengths.


HTH,


Rick

 

[pm3839]



Quote:
Originally Posted by espbeetle /forum/post/16858545


OK Antenna Experts, thanks in advance for your help! Here's the TVFool: Attachment 148245 We have a ranch style house in central NJ with a few tall trees around the house, but no large buildings. If at all possible I would prefer the antenna not be too big and mount it in the attic. Is that going to be possible? I've got only one TV, a new Panasonic plasma with built in tuner, though a second TV may be added later. Will I need an amp? Fire away...

u've got a large number of stations at 30 miles or so distance...youre very lucky....


so get a small rooftop type antenna locally (that u can return if necessary, ideally)....put it in your attic and experiment with what direction gives u the max number of channels.....and dont use any amps, they would probably overload in your situation... youre too close to a lot of signal sources, including fm stations and who knows what else....


attic antenna installs are great when they work, which they often do at distances like yours... i've had very good luck with them.....they are zero maintenance, the antenna will never wear out or become storm or weather damaged, no lightning issues, u dont have to risk personal safety or aesthestics being on the roof, etc etc...


run the coax to the attic first and assuming u have one, start by experimenting with a 'rabbit ear' type antenna in the attic before u buy anything new....just to see what u can get that way....u might be surprised with some good results...and as always, u should try to keep any antenna away from any metal such as electrical conduits, etc that might be nearby....whether in the attic or outside...


let us know how it works out...good luck

 

[espbeetle]

Thanks for the info everyone!


TowerGuy, I kind of figured that NJN and those other channels could be a problem. It would be nice to have them, but I will probably live without them. Just out of curiosity, is there an antenna that would give me those channels? Would I need to do a roof mount? Thanks.


I would definitely prefer to go the attic route for all of the reasons pm3839 mentioned. Thanks for the tips. I will try to get my hands on some rabbit ears before buying anything so I can do some testing.

 

[Tower Guy]



Quote:
Originally Posted by espbeetle /forum/post/16860711


Thanks for the info everyone!


TowerGuy, I kind of figured that NJN and those other channels could be a problem. It would be nice to have them, but I will probably live without them. Just out of curiosity, is there an antenna that would give me those channels? Would I need to do a roof mount? Thanks.

The HBU-22 was selected specifically to get you a wide antenna pattern in hopes that all the stations can be received without any special setup. A larger antenna eliminates that possibility.


If the losses through your roof and/or gable is low you may be lucky enough to get them most of the time while aimed at your mainstream stations. Also, because the angle difference is not huge, you may be able to find a spot at about 20 degrees which is partway in-between the two angles where they all work.


WFME is the first station with a large angle problem. Don't bother trying it.

 

[espbeetle]

So I threw an old set of Radio Shack rabbit ears in the attic and picked up a handful of stations pretty clearly (NBC, WNET, WPIX) with a bunch of others coming in pretty spotty for about 25 total. Obviously I haven't even seen a trace of anything in the yellow. I'm running about 30 ft. of coax.


I would like to buy an antenna now to start experimenting in the attic first. Where can I buy an antenna locally (Central Jersey)? I would like to be able to return it if I am not getting results. That Winegard 7696 looks huge at nearly 10 ft. in length so I am interested in the HBU22. Anyone have any other recommendations? I am giving up on Low VHF completely and sticking to High VHF/UHF.


Thanks again for the help!

 

[IDRick]

You might want to try a DIY 4-bay antenna. It should work very well for you on the roof. Multipath can be a problem for 4-bays mounted in the attic. Diagrams are available here: http://www.frontiernet.net/~mclapp/Antennas/Diagrams/ You could easily build a test model and compare in the attic versus on the roof. Your cost would be about $5 to $15, depending on what materials you have available in your home. I have attached a picture of one of my temporary builds that used a 3 ft piece of 2"x2" wood, 1/2" pvc strap (carlon), 22 ft of 12 guage copper wire, and ten nuts & bolts. For temporary testing, you could use a piece of 36"x36" cardboard as the reflector. Cover the front side of the cardboard with aluminum foil and mount the antenna 4 inches in front of the reflector.


Alternatively, you could try the winegard 7694, smaller brother to the 7696. I would be very comfortable using the 7694 with a roof mount. An attic mount would decrease your margin to dropout but probably is not a major issue given the high signal strengths in your area.


HTH,


Rick

 

[Tower Guy]



Quote:
Originally Posted by IDRick /forum/post/16877233


You might want to try a DIY 4-bay antenna.

That won't work well for VHF channels WABC, WPIX, or WNET. The McClapp antenna is configured for UHF only.

 

[IDRick]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Tower Guy /forum/post/16877469


That won't work well for VHF channels WABC, WPIX, or WNET. The McClapp antenna is configured for UHF only.

Actually the mclapp antennas do have *some* high vhf reception. See attached mclapp data. For 5 to $15, the OP can test an attic versus a roof install with a high gain UHF antenna plus some high vhf reception. Less expensive than most indoor antennas and no worries about returning if doesn't meet his/her needs. Worked for me!

In my case, I have a 48 dB margin to dropout for ch 8 (tower is 30 miles away, NM 55 dB). I wouldn't hesitate using the mclapp with towers all in one location, distance under 30 miles, and NM in excess of 40 dB. YMMV.

 

[Tower Guy]



Quote:
Originally Posted by IDRick /forum/post/16877513


YMMV.

Your mileage Will vary.


Channel 8 = 4 db gain

Channel 11 = 0 db gain

Channel 13 = -1 db gain


It's not the signal strength that matters. DTV is very sensitive to reflections. (multipath) Reflections go up as the gain goes down.


Unless you live next door and are using the exact same channels, I think that it is poor judgment to suggest a UHF design for indoor VHF reception.

 

[IDRick]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Tower Guy /forum/post/16877604


Your mileage Will vary.


Channel 8 = 4 db gain

Channel 11 = 0 db gain

Channel 13 = -1 db gain


It's not the signal strength that matters. DTV is very sensitive to reflections. (multipath) Reflections go up as the gain goes down.


Unless you live next door and are using the exact same channels, I think that it is poor judgment to suggest a UHF design for indoor VHF reception.

Okay, I have been suitably chastised...

If you read my previous post closer, you will see that I was suggesting the mclapp for a *roof* installation and indicated potential issues for multipath issues in the attic. I was not recommending the mclapp for an indoor antenna.


Thankfully for me, mclapp did not follow your stringent rules and did suggest an antenna that works well in Idaho even though he is long ways away in upstate NY. IMO, a $5 to $15 DIY antenna is not a major item. If it works great. If not, no big deal. A DIY antenna appeals to some and not to others. I have no idea whether the OP is even interested. He did ask if there were other alternatives.


Have a great day!

 

[pm3839]



Quote:
Originally Posted by espbeetle /forum/post/16875179


So I threw an old set of Radio Shack rabbit ears in the attic ........I would like to buy an antenna now to start experimenting in the attic first. Where can I buy an antenna locally (Central Jersey)? I would like to be able to return it if I am not getting results. .......Anyone have any other recommendations? I am giving up on Low VHF completely and sticking to High VHF/UHF. Thanks again for the help!

i have no idea on local sources for u....but heres 2 alternatives....youre close enough to the stations that either of these will probably work well for u in the attic on hi vhf and uhf .....neither one will be good on lo vhf but in most cases for most people thats ok >


make your own simple 4 bay antenna for next to nothing....i made this one with coat hanger wire and it works well in my attic....its a simpler/ez'er to build version of the MCLAPP antenna that IDRick uses....all the specs are shown here....all u have to add is a $1 matching transformer at the center feed point >


home made Hoverman Antenna

https://flic.kr/p/2120500361 ​

or

try the Winegard HD-1080 ...right now its $32 with free shipping at buy.com...this one is fairly small too.....perfect for an attic >

Winegard HD-1080 VHF/UHF/FM Antenna

http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=208503801

 

[espbeetle]

Hey guys, thanks for all of the opinions, I have been reading them all and each bit of advice helps me learn a little more about antennas. I am interested in DIY antennas, but we just moved into a new house and the project list is already pretty long so I may just buy an antenna. That said, please keep the suggestions coming. I've got a really busy weekend ahead of me so I doubt I will work on this until Sunday if at all, but I will keep you all posted if I do anything.