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VAVA Banned from Amazon

9.1K views 50 replies 17 participants last post by  Trapani  
#1 ·
#2 ·
I found this:


it seems that they banned some vendors, but not necessarily the products.
 
#3 ·
Vava was banned, but I'm seeing their UST pop back up on Amazon as brand "VV AA", "V-AV", etc. Pretty sneaky. Concerns me as a backer for their upcoming Chroma, and what we're hearing about controlling messaging by YouTube reviewers they sent out samples to. They also just posted an update about reviews being available, and they aren't reviews, but previews and rehash of marketing claims/specs.
 
#6 · (Edited)
These are just the fake reviews we know about. Now imagine everything we don't know about. Political comments on reddit. Political comments on youtube and facebook. User reviews on metacritic for video games and movies.

Basically, you can't trust any comments online unless you personally know the person who wrote them, and know they are trustworthy. The whole idea that you can put stock in anonymous online conversations, and for instance say "the data shows that x percent of twitter users support this," or "are against this," needs to be completely re-examined. The internet is the most powerful tool for propaganda to ever exist, especially when you can pass one party's propaganda off as something that hundreds of thousands, or millions, of independent people agree with, just with some bot algorithms or "AI" algorithms. Heck, we don't even know what type of algorithms have been developed in secret.

I mean, people post their political opinions online, or their opinions about anything, as if their voice matters, but just one algorithm can create 100,000 fake account accounts, aka fake "voices," to say the exact opposite as you. The first one completely negates your post, and then the next 99,999 turn your voice into a fringe minority viewpoint next to the "consensus" of 99,999 "people."

Until we all realize how many, possibly a majority(?), of the comments we read online are fake, people will continue to get fooled by this.
 
#11 ·
Check the number of upvotes for positive reviews on the JIFAR unit
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Also, literally the first review of its sister projector
Follow this vine reviewer's logic
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#15 ·
Looks like they were banned for offering incentives for posting a review. I have done this in the past (nooie camera rings a bell - got a free flash card), but no one said the review had to be favorable?. As a VAVA owner I read through all the amazon reviews at the time prior to purchase and there was a mix of good and critical reviews, and owning the device now don't feel any of the reviews exaggerated anything.
 
#16 ·
As a VAVA owner I read through all the amazon reviews at the time prior to purchase and there was a mix of good and critical reviews, and owning the device now don't feel any of the reviews exaggerated anything.
Ok see and this is where I'm drawing a blank

Who's driving the decisions to pull specifically this but not the stuff I found just yesterday?
Why specifically does Sunvalley group out of San Jose get pulled

Feels like someone cared more about nailing an upper mid tier Chinese vendor than eliminating a problematic practice
 
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#19 ·
To add to this:

From a corporate warfare standpoint, this is a poor strategic move, whomever did this

1 low cost UST manufacturer was potentially/temporarily eliminated from the fold when 15 are appearing
The damage to this specific manufacturer will harm the industry as a whole as the manufacturer was perceived as innovative and was being backed privately
The profile/scale of the preceding lawsuits flushed the deck of cards and revealed an influencing party
Trust and confidence in the accuracy of viewer reporting is now damaged
The supply chain for the competitors technology is visibly damaged to the consumer

Efforts should be sustained to economize production of existing equipment while introducing features into software
Price point is most important and consumers will not pay more than what they perceive of a value

Also, stop eliminating ways I can buy projectors. It's a practice, not a product that's the problem.
 
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#20 ·
Meanwhile at Yaber HQ
I'm not making this stuff up guys
They'll even same-day you some of this e-waste
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#21 ·
Meanwhile at Yaber HQ
I'm not making this stuff up guys
They'll even same-day you some of this e-waste
To be fair that projector is indeed 1080p native resolution, a single lcd panel with a single led light source that most likely will produce around 400 real lumens, as it looks pretty similiar than other generic models like the t26k/t26l or even the m18. They're more or less the same. It's not worth 224$ considering the fantastic refurb market that's available on the US, but for other countries this type of units really do make sense to get into this hobby, as they're covered by amazon warranty and you could get them at the equivalent of ~170usd.

On other forums there are some special users that love to denigrate the users who use and enjoy this cheap units, because only them know how to experience true® cinema™, gatekeeping I think is the proper term for this situation.
 
#22 ·
@Macno
Being fair would be removing Yaber from the Amazon marketplace for manipulating reviews just as VAVA was.
Eye for an eye, Hammurabi
 
#23 ·
Verbatim from Cindy Tai of Amazon

“Customers rely on the accuracy and authenticity of product reviews to make informed purchasing decisions and we have clear policies for both reviewers and selling partners that prohibit abuse of our community features. We suspend, ban, and take legal action against those who violate these policies, wherever they are in the world,”

Just Tai-ed it up all nice with a name, I'll find an email and a # plus here's her conflicting boilerplate statement

This is who pulled vava
 
#24 ·
"We are confident that the steps we take are in the best interests of our customers as well as the honest businesses that make up the vast majority of our global selling community.”
-Cindy Tai

 
#28 · (Edited)
Vava are shady AF. They blatantly lied to me personally on one of their review threads and said their innards weren't from the same company Appotronic as all the other UST like Xiaomi, Fengmi etc when they first came on the scene. Vincent from HDTVtest confirmed that they do indeed use the same guts as all the rest of the original UST projectors from several years back. They lied about their specs. They exaggerated. Made claims that were complete BS, there's no lag, super quiet, etc. They payed users to give favorable reviews to their UST projector before it even hit indigogo. EPBMan or whatever that guys handle is on youtube. He just outright BS his way through a "review" lol... a month before it was even released. He's still saying the same BS he was years ago about the new VAVA Chroma. "I'm totally unbiased... ". How can you say that when they send you a 4 thousand dollar projector before it's even released? You're a shill buddy. You'll say anything to get free stuff. You get it for free, you get thousands of youtube views that make you money. They send you even more free stuff in the future. Of course you'll lie about the products they send you. They most likely send you a written script of commments they want you to make about it. You're a corporate liar/hoore. I don't believe a word out of their execs mouths when they speak. It's all China BS.

I read on youtube comments years ago about Amazon reviewers who left negative reviews on the original VAVA being approached by VAVA and attempts were made to pay them to remove their negative review. They were also evidently dinged by Amazon at one point for price bait and switch a couple of years back at Christmas time.
 
#31 ·
Vava are shady AF. They blatantly lied to me personally on one of their review threads and said their innards weren't from the same company Appotronic as all the other UST like Xiaomi, Fengmi etc when they first came on the scene. Vincent from HDTVtest confirmed that they do indeed use the same guts as all the rest of the original UST projectors from several years back. They lied about their specs. They exaggerated. Made claims that were complete BS, there's no lag, super quiet, etc. They payed users to give favorable reviews to their UST projector before it even hit indigogo. EPBMan or whatever that guys handle is on youtube. He just outright BS his way through a "review" lol... a month before it was even released. He's still saying the same BS he was years ago about the new VAVA Chroma. "I'm totally unbiased... ". How can you say that when they send you a 4 thousand dollar projector before it's even released? You're a shill buddy. You'll say anything to get free stuff. You get it for free, you get thousands of youtube views that make you money. They send you even more free stuff in the future. Of course you'll lie about the products they send you. They most likely send you a written script of commments they want you to make about it. You're a corporate liar/hoore. I don't believe a word out of their execs mouths when they speak. It's all China BS.

I read on youtube comments years ago about Amazon reviewers who left negative reviews on the original VAVA being approached by VAVA and attempts were made to pay them to remove their negative review. They were also evidently dinged by Amazon at one point for price bait and switch a couple of years back at Christmas time.
It sounds from most of this that you feel particularly burned about their deceptive trade practice. Let me assure you that as someone who was burned by the UHD50x and Optoma, thinking it was going to be the great successor to the UHD60, much less live up to any of its claims, I know those feelings.

How was the actual projector if I may ask? In terms of holistic product but not customer service.

This falls into a category that I enjoy. "corporate psychology"
Optoma is not too far removed.
They make some decent equipment but leave you clueless which models are good and which ones are the stinkers (largely through the spec ratings)
They also don't do well with following up on their firmware.
Most importantly, they lie when they think it will get them ahead

The advance in this instance is the "Fraudazon" where word of mouth is removed from the equation
I may have seen a bit of this with Optoma TBH but it didn't push me enough to document

That said, if you're that upset... Have you been documenting?
I kept all my shocking screengrabs where Opto claimed 16ms "4k" on the generation II .47" DMD, lumen output, etc.
Organize if you are upset.
 
#30 ·
I have a RavPower portable usb charging station that I’ve had for years. Surprised to see them banned now
 
#35 ·
You just can't trust all these companies. They all try to take shortcuts, lie or find loopholes so they can turn a profit. Add in the anonymity aspect of social media and the internet, it will be easy for them to fake reviews, fake credentials, fake technical claims, etc.
I find this stuff fascinating though.
Most of these large corpos make simple mistakes when they come to bat on juice like mark mcgwire.
They get hot with the marketing but forget the consumer is powerful in owning the device and amplifying opinion.
They try to combat this through shock-jocks on YouTube but the drawback there is biased contracting of equipment.
To combat this, there have to be hobbyists and enthusiasts who buy (not evaluate through contract) the equipment, know their rights as a consumer/customer. Then they decide to talk about it.

I've learned that some of this spec stuff is admissible but it's -how far- said definition of admissable/permissible is from the truth that really matters.
 
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#42 ·
That would be an 80% loss in lumen value after calibration
(if the 2500 approximation is correct)
Simple maths, that's terrible if it's true.
It's worse that they used low grade claims such as "9500" in the beginning.
Even if they made a good product, you'll get nailed for false advertisement doing stuff like that.

That's more egregious than the UHD50x if it's true
I just did the math, the "cinema" mode that had the best balance would have been 61% loss after calibration
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If that's true, it's actually kind of reassuring that there's some sort of industry standard of play unseen, loss value for calibration.

Think of it this way.
The HZ39HDR that I just bought has settled around 2000 lumens with a claimed 4000 resulting in 50% net loss for calibration, not bad given the above.

At least with physical light output, there seems to be some level of industry policing. Lol don't mess around with ANSI
 
#43 ·
Moar sleuthing
TL ; DR skip to this part and read about Allen Fung
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Also read the perception of Amazon back then. Crazy but not unbelievable.
Could some of this lending practice be why we see other brands still going unnoticed?
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#46 ·
All this being said, there are a lot of happy VAVA projector owners out there. Their new, triple-laser via Indiegogo is an interesting proposition. Amazon has its work cut out in trying to police reviews from users. Their sheer volume make it a daunting task but they certainly could do better. I’d like to see them provide proper notification on items that are returnable where the buyer has to pay for return shipping. I mean, a huge label, color or asterisk to denote these items.
 
#47 ·
Which is going to suck for VAVA because false advertising in court will carry LD (liquidated damage) which back dates to the incident (which is the original promotion, ouch) SWAG figure @$5k per day of false promotion would be almost $2M/yr. Totally winging that but the LD penalty guaranteed to cover (presumably Epson) this business practice damaged.

Some of this is the store front too. Think about it. If you've got a place that's OK to have a flea market projector next to home theater projectors, you have to police them all the same way so that your store front is perceived as "clean"
They're going to have to solve it using the same thing they use for a lot of things, machine tracking.
Write a bot that combs the site for stuff like the Jifari and other obvious rips.
Look into the people who are buying and how they review.
The people who are writing the fake reviews are the ones who are crooks. They take the bribe and do the deed.
Set up stings where you have people offering fake gift card offers to those people. Boom. On to the next party trick at least.
 
#48 ·
#49 ·
Gonna drop some more stinkers in here
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Like zero upvotes from the platform either
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Someone should go ahead and get rid of the rest of these quickly so we can have good projectors again and people know to expect a certain cost for features.