good question....


I would be interesting to know if the additional channels are just ignored(my guess) or mixed into the other surround channels.

 

This is all your receiver........if you wish to listen to uncompressed PCM from your BD, your receiver has to be capable of accepting multichannel PCM (MPCM). In the case of a 5.1 setup, the receiver will blank the 2 channels that arent being used if you dont have a 7.1 setup (although I think some receivers can actually mix those two channels into the channels you do have, sort of like bi-amplification with towers).

 

Weeds 2 is 16 bit right? 6144Kbps? What would the bitrates be if it was 24 bit 7.1 uncompressed audio?

 

Yes, it'll depend on your receiver or source. I tried earlier this year with a JVC receiver being fed a HDMI PCM 5.1 from PS3 off Blu-Ray. I have a 4.1 setup, no center channel. The center channel was ignored and not mixed into the front speakers.


Everything was setup correctly and tried in vein to get center channel mixed but both the PS3 and JVC had no PCM management of the channels.


Luckily when multichannel PCM tracks are output over SPDIF, the PS3 will downmix and preserve surround channels and give me awesome stereo with matrixed surround. Again, I don't know if other Blu-Ray players do this. It all depends.

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by Davio /forum/post/0


This is all your receiver........if you wish to listen to uncompressed PCM from your BD, your receiver has to be capable of accepting multichannel PCM (MPCM). In the case of a 5.1 setup, the receiver will blank the 2 channels that arent being used if you dont have a 7.1 setup (although I think some receivers can actually mix those two channels into the channels you do have, sort of like bi-amplification with towers).

My receiver can do 7.1 multichannel via HDMI. I would assume my receiver probably has a mode that can take a 7.1 mix down to 5.1, but I don't know for sure. Gotta check the manual.


I was hoping the BD player could do the work for me and output the uncompressed audio as 5.1 as I prefer to use the "Pure Audio" function on my receiver that does no extra processing and turns off all unused portions of the receiver and outputs the signal it receives.


I really like listening to things as the were intended and not mess with surround processing.

 

What are some BD titles that do 7.1 so I can read the specs on them for audio?

 

 http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=3338


This is from Benes, he also post's here at avsforum.com he updated the list at blu-ray.com about 2 weeks ago, he does a very good job keeping his lists updated.


American Psycho 6.1 DTS HD

Crank 7.1 LPCM

The Departed 7.1 LPCM

The Descent 7.1 LPCM

The Devils Reject 6.1 DTS HD

J Ghost in the Shell 7.1 LPCM

Lord of War 6.1 DTS-ES 1.5Mbps

The Punisher 6.1 DTS-ES 1.5Mbps

Reservoir Dogs 6.1 DTS HD

Saw 6.1 DTS-ES 1.5Mbps

Saw 2 6.1 DTS HD

Saw 3 6.1 DTS HD

Stargate Extended Cut 6.1 DTS HD

Stir of Echos 6.1 DTS HD

Total Recall 6.1 DTS HD

Ultimate Avengers 7.1 LPCM

Ultimate Avengers 2 7.1 LPCM

We Were Soldiers 6.1 DTS-ES 1.5Mbps

Weeds 7.1 LPCM

6.1 DTS-ES = 1.5Mbps
6.1 DTS-HD = 3.0Mbps

 

Whatever happened to the good old days when it was just dolby digital ; ) All of these new audio codecs are making home theater setup mind boggling!!

 



Quote:
This is all your receiver........if you wish to listen to uncompressed PCM from your BD, your receiver has to be capable of accepting multichannel PCM (MPCM). In the case of a 5.1 setup, the receiver will blank the 2 channels that arent being used if you dont have a 7.1 setup (although I think some receivers can actually mix those two channels into the channels you do have, sort of like bi-amplification with towers).

So am I understanding correctly that in the case of a receiver that can only handle 5.1 PCM via HDMI and are unable to apply PLII to the audio (Onkyo 604) that any of the above titles need to be watched using the compressed audio formats or else part of the soundtrack will actually be lost?

 

Hard to say what they are doing with that extra channel and/or channels.

Until we get something definitive, I will not try to speculate.



What if your player only has 5.1 MPCM capability? Maybe it does take care of this?



These are hard questions to get answers to. I put out a thread 8 months ago asking the same question.



With the millions upon millions of 5.1 systems out there, I just can't believe you would be missing audio.



I've watched a few of these with my 5.1 only player and used the MPCM and applied EX processing to it. Seemed fine but you really can't know if your missing content or not.

 

If you output the uncompressed 7.1 source to your receiver you'll be fine. While you'll lose whatever sound would come from the back surrounds, by simply not hooking up speakers to those terminals, the loss would be very minor, especially in a small room. Discrete 7.1 is very rare, it wouldn't concern me at all going with 5.1 in your room.


If your receiver allows it, you might be able to simply turn off the output to the back surrounds. My Denon allows me to do this.

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by egrady /forum/post/0


If you output the uncompressed 7.1 source to your receiver you'll be fine. While you'll lose whatever sound would come from the back surrounds, by simply not hooking up speakers to those terminals, the loss would be very minor, especially in a small room. Discrete 7.1 is very rare, it wouldn't concern me at all going with 5.1 in your room.


If your receiver allows it, you might be able to simply turn off the output to the back surrounds. My Denon allows me to do this.

So you are saying basically fool the receiver into thinking I have 7.1 to take advantage of the track?


So when all said and done, doesn't the whole 7.1 thing seem a better idea with DTS HD or Dolby THD? Do they work similar to DD5.1EX and DTS-ES where the extra channels are matrixed in? This way you can use 5.1 or 6.1 set ups without loss of sound.


7.1 uncompressed PCM is wonderful but realistically MOST people will never upgrade to 7.1 EVER, even if they have the receiver and player to do so.


If you offer 7.1 uncompressed PCM as an option with the only other option is to jerry-rig your set up and miss out on part of the other 2-channels or use a lower resolution alternative, then 95% of the users will never take advantage of it.


Hopefully DTS-HD and DD THD 7.1 tracks will be more versatile. I don't think these are a reality yet but maybe someone has info on what they theoretically will do when available. I thought I read they each will support like 18 channels or something crazy.

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by BBS G35 /forum/post/0

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=3338


This is from Benes, he also post's here at avsforum.com he updated the list at blu-ray.com about 2 weeks ago, he does a very good job keeping his lists updated.


American Psycho 6.1 DTS HD

Crank 7.1 LPCM

The Departed 7.1 LPCM

The Descent 7.1 LPCM

The Devils Reject 6.1 DTS HD

J Ghost in the Shell 7.1 LPCM

Lord of War 6.1 DTS-ES 1.5Mbps

The Punisher 6.1 DTS-ES 1.5Mbps

Reservoir Dogs 6.1 DTS HD

Saw 6.1 DTS-ES 1.5Mbps

Saw 2 6.1 DTS HD

Saw 3 6.1 DTS HD

Stargate Extended Cut 6.1 DTS HD

Stir of Echos 6.1 DTS HD

Total Recall 6.1 DTS HD

Ultimate Avengers 7.1 LPCM

Ultimate Avengers 2 7.1 LPCM

We Were Soldiers 6.1 DTS-ES 1.5Mbps

Weeds 7.1 LPCM

6.1 DTS-ES = 1.5Mbps
6.1 DTS-HD = 3.0Mbps

Are you sure about "the Departed" ?

..pretty sure my Bluray is 5.1 PCM

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/departed.html

 

Yes the Onkyo allows the same, and the PS3 will actually auto-detect what it is capable of over HDMI, so when I configure the ps3 it already knows that PCM 5.1 is the max it can send. But unless the PS3 actually remixes the audio before sending those extra 2 channels are being lost completely, since my understanding is that if the receiver can't post process the audio (as the 604 can't to incoming PCM via HDMI) then there is no way for it to matrix those channels into the two existing surrounds. It might not be a huge loss, but as someone looking at new receivers it seems like enough reason to rule out anything that can't handle up to 7.1 via PCM.

 

You only really lose something with a 5.1 set up if the source has a discrete 6.1 or 7.1 mix. AND if you have enough space in your room to take advantage of it. Discrete 6.1 and 7.1 mixes are rare, very few discs to my knowledge really have them. There is a big difference between a disc that advertises a 6.1 or 7.1 soundtrack and one that has a discrete 6.1 or 7.1 mix.

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by egrady /forum/post/0


You only really lose something with a 5.1 set up if the source has a discrete 6.1 or 7.1 mix. AND if you have enough space in your room to take advantage of it. Discrete 6.1 and 7.1 mixes are rare, very few discs to my knowledge really have them. There is a big difference between a disc that advertises a 6.1 or 7.1 soundtrack and one that has a discrete 6.1 or 7.1 mix.

But they are available and we will see more of them down the road and I'd like to make sure I can experience the best I can in its full glory.

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by PioManiac /forum/post/0


Are you sure about "the Departed" ?

..pretty sure my Bluray is 5.1 PCM

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/departed.html

PM Benes, he post's here.

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by BBS G35 /forum/post/0


PM Benes, he post's here.

No need, his own list you provided a link to shows it as 5.1 PCM as well

Simple mis-read of the chart on somebodies part I guess,

( its right above the Decent ) that has a Rated and Unrated version.



On an related note though,

I just noticed a trend in Lionsgate future releases ...lots of 7.1 PCM


in addition to Crank, the Decent, and Weeds...

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/nati...vanwilder.html

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/deltafarce.html

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/waiting.html


Not sure if those comedies (if you can call them that) , are worthy of 7.1 PCM,

but it looks like Lionsgate is a leader in producing discs with 6.1 and 7.1 audio tracks so far.

 

7.1 pcm can only be passed over hdmi, so all this post will assume hdmi connection for audio. (discrete analog 7.1 is an option too)


If your receiver supports only 5.1, per the hdmi spec, that is all the PS3 will send it. I dont believe the ps3 does any internal mixing (actually i believe that is dissallowed by hdmi spec), so you will lose the info from the 2 channels.


If your receiver supports 7.1, and you have 5.1 connected, well then it depends on the sound mode used.


I have a pioneer with a pure mode that purposefully doesnt process the sound. Since remixing the 7.1 down to 5.1 would constitute processing, that wont be done and I will lose the other 2 channels. If I use a processing mode, or basically anything except the pure mode, then the extra 2 channels are mixed into the rear surrounds for 5.1


The levels of the mixing is highly dependent on the receiver you have and the mode you select. You have to refer to your avr manual for that.

 

Interesting and rather unfortunate since it sort of forces a 6.1 or 7.1 setup depending on the movie to avoid any loss of sound. I don't have any experience with either so I can't say how much, but generally what I see and hear in the theater is what I expect to see and hear at home. I might just stick to DD and DTS for the time being since as I understand it 6.1 and 7.1 soundtracks in those formats are properly downmixed to 5.1 when necessary. I wouldn't upgrade to a high def picture if it meant cropping of the picture any way so I can't see moving to higher quality audio at the cost of some of the content either.


But that's just my opinion on the matter. Thanks for the info!