I got a question for sony calibrators experienced with the a90j and the a95l:

These two TVs in particular, were announced to have extra high brightness capability in vivid mode.

Two questions:

Does the vivid mode have a software based higher peak brightness capability compared to all the other modes?

and the second part to that question:

If yes, it does have a higher peak brightness software unlock capability, is there a way to calibrate the hdr vivid or dolby vision vivid mode to a relatively accurate image?

I ask because i found a website that shows the MaxCLL and MaxFall, and the mastering peak brightness of movies. If I'm watching a 2000 or 4000 nit movie from that list, I'd like to have the one mode, unlocked to me to use in a relatively accurate way to use more of the peak brightness.

And by relatively accurate, I mean bringing the whitening back down to 6500 from that blue cool, and not lifting the EOTF to get brighter. I'd just want the peak highlights to be brighter, assuming question 1 is answered yes.

 

I got a question for sony calibrators experienced with the a90j and the a95l:

These two TVs in particular, were announced to have extra high brightness capability in vivid mode.

Two questions:

Does the vivid mode have a software based higher peak brightness capability compared to all the other modes?

and the second part to that question:

If yes, it does have a higher peak brightness software unlock capability, is there a way to calibrate the hdr vivid or dolby vision vivid mode to a relatively accurate image?

I ask because i found a website that shows the MaxCLL and MaxFall, and the mastering peak brightness of movies. If I'm watching a 2000 or 4000 nit movie from that list, I'd like to have the one mode, unlocked to me to use in a relatively accurate way to use more of the peak brightness.

And by relatively accurate, I mean bringing the whitening back down to 6500 from that blue cool, and not lifting the EOTF to get brighter. I'd just want the peak highlights to be brighter, assuming question 1 is answered yes.

You should probably be asking this in the owner's thread. No responsible calibrator is going to want to do ANYTHING with vivid mode other than recommend you don't use it. Understand that it is most likely just a set of changes overlaid on the TV panel's base calibration when you select it, just like the "enhancements" on other TVs, much as someone puts on a set of clothes. So trying to make vivid "more accurate" is probably going to be a non-starter.

 

I’ve read about the first half of the posts in this thread so far so I apologize if the following questions are already addressed more recently. I’m having a Sony 85x95L delivered on Monday and want to calibrate it myself even though I know it’s fairly accurate out of the box.. In the past I’ve calibrated my Sony 85x900F and 75X940E using my i1 display pro, AVS 709 blu ray and HCFR software. I’m rusty and trying to brush up on my skills. I know there are better methods now available and have a bunch of questions – I know there are a lot of them!

Meter – I can’t find the receipt, but my i1 display pro is about 4 or 5 years old and I know older meters tended to drift and degrade over time and that the Calibrate Display Plus looks to be the successor to my i1 display pro. If I use this meter as is and don’t calibrate to a Spectro will the inaccuracy of my meter throw of the calibration enough for my eyes to notice or are we talking maybe I’ll get 95% of the way there but just not 100%? Looks like I can rent an X-Rite i1Studio Spectro here without breaking the bank. Would that be worth the time, cost and effort?: Lensrentals.com - Rent a X-Rite i1Studio Spectrophotometer Would it be worth the cost to upgrade to a Calibrate Display Plus or whatever the current leading consumer grade colorimeter is these days? If so, what's the general consensus as far as the leading one in the $300 price range?

Test Patterns – Seems like using a PGenerator is best practice and I’m considering buying one and setting it up and using 10 bit patterns with a Rasberry Pi 4. I believe using the patterns on my old AVS 709 blu ray will lead to some inaccuracies. I believe that short of a PGenerator, that Ted’s LightSpace CMS Calibration Disc patterns would be the next best option and is superior to AVS 709. Is that true? If I use those Ted’s patterns is there any benefit to putting them on a USB stick as opposed to burning them to a blu ray and using them in my Blu Ray player?

If I was to use Colourspace ZRO’s in built test patterns will that give me enough greyscale patterns to a do 10 or 20 point greyscale calibration and 25%, 50%, 75% and 100% primary and secondary color, color patterns to calibrate CMS and check results with saturation sweeps? Also, as far as window size am I correct that I should use full field windows for both greyscale and color (in SDR) since I have a mini LED TV? If I was to verify the SDR calibration translated well to HDR should I then use 10% or 25% windows (and if so which ones?), being that in HDR full field patterns will limit the light output of my TV in HDR mode? If so, I have an HP Laptop with an Intel Iris XE Graphics card. I can set it to to full range in the graphics card control panel and shut off all image enhancements. Would this be enough to get 100% accurate test patterns out of my laptop’s HDMI port? See: Quantization Range Option Is Not Visible in the Intel® Graphics... and How to Configure YCbCr in the Intel® Graphics Command Center

Signal Chain / RBG Limited or Full - I saw conflicting info where some said to set the TV in a limited RGB range, set the source hardware in full range, and use patterns / software with limited range. Is that still the best practice? I believe I saw a post recommending different settings if using a PGenerator with a Rasberry Pi 4 – can someone elaborate on that?

Also, if I’m calibrating with a signal input to my TV's HDMI port, I have a Denon x3500h that I run my external devices through. Should I leave that in the signal chain so it’s accounted for in the calibration since I use it in everyday watching assuming I turn of all video enhancements and alterations? Or should I plug in directly into the TV’s HDMI port? On that AVR model the only thing you can’t turn off related to video is “video mode”. The only options are movie or game and I leave it in movie mode and am not sure if that alters the signal in anyway. I believe other / newer Denon models have an “off” setting for this function. See: https://manuals.denon.com/AVRX3500H/eu/en/GFNFSYmlxuhedk.php

Picture Modes / Color Temperature Modes: It seems like there are several methods that will all yield different results. I know all calibrations are done in SDR and then copied to HDR 10 and Dolby Vision. My end goals are SDR / HDR 10 and Dolby Vision accuracy and having to switch picture modes as little as possible or preferably not at all depending on content, and I believe those are competing goals. As far as color temperature, I believe the “easy” way is to use warm across the board since it doesn’t shift the white balance for Dolby Vision dark. If I use Expert 1 and 2 I can either use 1 of them for SDR Day / HDR 10 / Dolby Vision bright or and the other for Dolby Vision dark accounting for the Sony Judd white point offset for Dolby Vision dark. If I do it this way is the best practice, for both color temperature slots, to calibrate at 2.2 gamma and to 100 nits and if so do I leave peak luminance on medium or high or off? If I do it this way then I shouldn’t have to switch picture modes since Dolby Vision dark is it’s own picture mode which I can associate with it’s own unique color temperature (Expert 1 or 2) but it seems like if I do it this way then I may get accurate color saturation in SDR but not in HDR 10 and Dolby Vision bright, right?

Or I can use one for SDR and calibrate to 100 nits, 2.2 gamma (not sure as far as peak luminance) and then use the other intended to be copied to HDR 10 and Dolby Vision bright (assuming Dolby Vision bright is a sperate picture mode from Dolby Vision dark) and calibrate that at max brightness and I believe peak luminance at medium or high (not sure which one) so I can have accurate color saturation in HDR 10 and Dolby Vision bright. Is that correct? In that case because SDR and HDR 10 will share the same picture mode (custom pro 1 or 2) and associated color temperature then I will have to switch picture modes for SDR and HDR (E.g. assign Expert 1 color temp to Custom Pro 1 and Expert 2 to Custom Pro 2), right? If I do this way then as far as Dolby Vision I’d be left with warm color temperature to try to do my best to calibrate to the Sony Judd white point, but I think if I do this then I’ll end up with a darker Dolby Vision dark picture since I’ll have to pull out a ton of blue to get to D65, right? At the end of the day it seems like I’ll have to make a compromise somewhere and can’t have my cake and eat it, right?

For anyone who read all this and is willing to answer I greatly appreciate it and know I have a lot of questions that are all over the map!

 

A DE above 1 is noticable on many colors. Especially White. Something to keep in mind when not using a spectro or not using 5nm one on QD-OLED or using a generic correction profile.

 

Just wanted to share my current Dolby Vision Dark measurements for my A80J now that I've figured out the best meter settings for the task.

While these measurements are reflecting larger errors than previous attempts, I believe they more accurately represent the display's capabilities.

Spoiler: Verify PQ EOTF

Spoiler: Verify RGB Balance

Spoiler: Verify Grayscale dE

Spoiler: Verify Color Checker

While I did calibrate RGB balance for all control points while in Calibrate Mode, I discovered I could get away with correcting gamma for only the first 5 grayscale control points, as those points tend to need an increase in luminance to reach the gamma target.

This translates to much better PQ curve tracking on the lower end once processing is enabled.

Here's the Calibrate Mode dif EOTF chart:

Spoiler: Calibrate dif EOTF

Correcting the remaining points to track 2.2 gamma accurately while in Calibrate Mode causes those points to noticeably undertrack the PQ EOTF curve when processing is enabled.

I guess that's just how the A80J's DoVi config data works.

 

This is an interesting read and not good news: https://www.stereonet.com/forums/to...rums/topic/550665-calibrating-qd-oled-tvs-sony-a95k-samsung-s95b-its-different/

The takeaway is that with QD OLED displays i1 display pro meters struggle a lot. Sounds like your only shot is to use a super high end spectro (5nm or less). Obviously that's cost prohibitive and those cost more than most TV's. And furthermore, although it's unclear to me, even if you could get your hands on a high end spectro and profile your i1 display pro, from the high end spectro, on your display, I think it sounds like the i1 display pro will still struggle to take accurate measurements. So to my mind, it seems like to properly calibrate a QD OLED, you're best bet is to find a talented professional calibrator who has a high end spectro and I know that's not what any of the enthusiasts here want to hear.

Furthermore there is talk in this thread stating that all QD type displays being are in the same boat. So that would mean that QD LED's (not just OLED) are affected too and most recent mid to high end LED TV's fall into this category.

So if this is all true it leads me to the believe that attempting to calibrate a large percentage of the TV's we have with an i1 display pro is an exercise in futility.

If anyone has dissenting opinions, I'd love to hear them to restore hope and correct my potentially misguided conclusions.

I think this thread is awesome and I learned a ton about calibrating Sony's and what software to use and how to generate accurate test patterns. But it seems to me that even with perfect methodology and test patterns, if your meter can't take accurate measurements then our efforts will not be rewarded..

 

This is an interesting read and not good news: https://www.stereonet.com/forums/to...rums/topic/550665-calibrating-qd-oled-tvs-sony-a95k-samsung-s95b-its-different/

The takeaway is that with QD OLED displays i1 display pro meters struggle a lot. Sounds like your only shot is to use a super high end spectro (5nm or less). Obviously that's cost prohibitive and those cost more than most TV's. And furthermore, although it's unclear to me, even if you could get your hands on a high end spectro and profile your i1 display pro, from the high end spectro, on your display, I think it sounds like the i1 display pro will still struggle to take accurate measurements. So to my mind, it seems like to properly calibrate a QD OLED, you're best bet is to find a talented professional calibrator who has a high end spectro and I know that's not what any of the enthusiasts here want to hear.

Furthermore there is talk in this thread stating that all QD type displays being are in the same boat. So that would mean that QD LED's (not just OLED) are affected too and most recent mid to high end LED TV's fall into this category.

So if this is all true it leads me to the believe that attempting to calibrate a large percentage of the TV's we have with an i1 display pro is an exercise in futility.

If anyone has dissenting opinions, I'd love to hear them to restore hope and correct my potentially misguided conclusions.

I think this thread is awesome and I learned a ton about calibrating Sony's and what software to use and how to generate accurate test patterns. But it seems to me that even with perfect methodology and test patterns, if your meter can't take accurate measurements then our efforts will not be rewarded..

I reached out to Rtings and they were nice enough to send me a spectral distribution file (SPD). It's a little above my head to make heads or tales out of it or if I can somehow use it to make my measurements more accurate, but they did say the responses of this TV are very peaky which is the same for QD OLED. So if peaky responses are what make the i1 display pro struggle then it would seem to me that at least on my QD LED 85X95L I may run into the same issues, with my i1display pro, that present on a QD OLED.

File is attached. Please note the extension for this for is: xlsx but I had to change to PDF so that AVSforum would let me upload it.

Also, I was looking in another thread here on AVSforum where the folks there seem to have deep working knowledge of these topics so I posted there to see if anyone will chime in and if you want to follow along here is that post: Spectral Corrections (CCSS/EDR) - Sharing, Tools, &amp...

 

Does calibrating white balance at contrast max also apply to Sony 75x940E? Also what should the display type be set to in HCFR?

 

I actually had the exact same question when I previously calibrated my 75X940E in the past using HCFR. I never could get to the bottom of it but here is a thread that I posted back then and you can see the responses to point you in the right direction. Sony 75x940e - HCFR display type?

As far as calibrating at max contrast I believe that does apply to a 75X940 but it was so long ago I don't remember what I set contrast to and/or if I was aware of this back then.

 

Thanks @mfish234. So what did you end up choosing for the display type when calibrating yours?

Also should I be choosing bt1886 or flat 2.2 gamma? I think rting calibrated theirs to flat 2.2

 

Please see my previous post. I don't remember which display type I chose. If you go through the post I linked to the options did get narrowed down but a definitive conclusion wasn't drawn. An unscientific thing you could do is go to rtings and pull up their pre-calibration graphs. Then take measurements on your TV with the 3 most likely display types and then just go with the one whose measurement most closely align with rtings pre-calibration graphs.

Each individual TV measures differently but at least you can see from rtings, that roughly speaking, there is too much blue and red in the top end, not enough green in the low end, and a bit too much blue and red and not quite enough green in the middle.

https://i.rtings.com/assets/products/HFz1DtsS/sony-x940e/pre-white-balance-large.jpg

Sony X940E Review (XBR75X940E)

The X940E is a great large 4k HDR smart TV. It produces some of the best blacks found on LED TVs, and it can get quite bright. The excellent local dimming and ab...

www.rtings.com

 

If you have a 1 de2000 or more on white, and it’s towards green, it will smack you in the face.

 

Hey guys. I stopped doing calibrations for quiet some time. I received my new Sony 77A95L two weeks ago and after some break-in time I will try to calibrate it.

My equipment:

i1DisplayPro Plus
i1Pro2
RPi with PiGenerator
Calman for Sony
ColourspaceZRO


I had a Sony A80J back then, which I calibrated but I forgot all those Sony tricks`(Are those still relevant today with the new pentonic chip?). And I heard about the resolution problem with the i1DPro Plus and QD-OLED's. Withour reding the whole thread again, can some of you tell me if these are correct or do I miss something:

• I will use ColourspaceZRO with 10 bit Patches for Sony;
• I will calibrate with contrast at 100 and set it back after greyscale calibration
• I will use the S95C edr file for the sonys qd-oled 2nd gen display (or should I use the i1Pro2 for profiling?)
• Any special settings for Colourspace or PGenerator?

 

The 10-bit patchlists may be compatible because those TVs have different SoC, and we don't know if they use the same values.

You can use ColourSpace ZRO with your PGenerator to find and make a specific grayscale patchset, if required.

Sony hasn't published any new PDFs regarding those models, so follow the calibration procedure that users use with older models: Contrast 100 during calibration -> reduce to 90 after calibration...

Use the 'typical' meter/TPG settings with the S95C correction file.

 

I have some questions now that I've read this thread more thoroughly. I have a 85X95L TV, Colourspace Zro, and PGenerator 1.5 using a raberry pi 4 and just an i1 display pro colorimeter.

1. Should I calibrate with motion flow clearness on 1 if that’s how I watch in all modes? There was a post here that stated that clearness does have some effect on the color so I think that should be accounted for in the calibration if that’s how I always have it set during normal viewing. Would this be a correct assumption?

2. I might attempt to perceptually match my 85X95L to my HP Laptop’s screen after calibrating the laptop's RGB balance with an 80% greyscale patch with Colourspace. In general for, a standard laptop screen, what is generally the best correlation file in Colorspace to use? I have a HP Pavilion Laptop PC 15-eg1000. This appears to be the screen it uses but this description doesn’t tell me what type of LCD tech it uses:

Amazon.com: 15.6" Screen Replacement for HP Pavilion 15-EG1000 Series LCD Display Panel 30 pin (FHD 1920 * 1080 Non-Touch) : Electronics

Amazon.com: 15.6" Screen Replacement for HP Pavilion 15-EG1000 Series LCD Display Panel 30 pin (FHD 1920 * 1080 Non-Touch) : Electronics

www.amazon.com

When I calibrated the laptop screen, with no correlation file, and then perceptually matched to my TV I found that I had to pull out a lot more blue gain from Expert 1 than just calibrating to D65 using the Mini LED (TCL C825) correlation file in Colourspace without perceptually matching. (-9 Blue gain when perceptually matching vs. -1 Blue gain when not perceptually matching). Does perceptually matching typically lead to such a large discrepancy in the 2 point RGB gains.

3. For my 85X95L mini LED what is the ideal patch size to use with my PGenerator for a 100 nit SDR calibration? And how about if I was to do a max brightness / peak luminance medium, SDR calibration to be used to base HDR10 and Dolby Vision bright on? I’m pretty sure I shouldn’t use full screen with max brightness / PL medium because of ABSL. I’m thinking maybe a 20% patch size for both 100 nit and max brightness / PL medium? If I should use a non-full screen patch size should I be using absolute black as the background?

4. If I attempt to independently calibrate the Dolby Vision bright CMS while in DV Bright mode, instead of using 75% / 75% RGBCYM patches should I maybe use 75% / 75% RGBCYM patches so I'm not trying to calibrate beyond the display's capabilities? And same question as # 3 as far as ideal patch sizes.

5. In general, when calibrating CMS after greyscale, the only change I should make is reverting contrast back from 100 to 90, correct? E.g. Leave local dimming and all other processing features off, correct?

6. I know when calibrating the 10 or 20 point greyscale contrast should be at 100. How about when I initially calibrate the RGB gain with the 2 point with a 100% white pattern - should contrast be 100 or 90?

Thanks!

 

1) Some motion flow modes will add black frame insertion, affecting your peak output.

Check your peak output with ON/OFF of that motion setting to see if you see any difference in your output levels.

2) We use perceptual matching when a spectro and a colorimeter.

When you only have a colorimeter, and there is no available correction file for your TV model, use the display tech with the closest match to your TV model.

3+4) Check the first posts for tips regarding patch size and for calibrating different picture modes.

5+6) After the Grayscale calibration, change the contrast to 90 and calibrate CMS.

 

Thanks @mfish234. So what did you end up choosing for the display type when calibrating yours?

Also should I be choosing bt1886 or flat 2.2 gamma? I think rting calibrated theirs to flat 2.2

Please see my previous post. I don't remember which display type I chose. If you go through the post I linked to the options did get narrowed down but a definitive conclusion wasn't drawn. An unscientific thing you could do is go to rtings and pull up their pre-calibration graphs. Then take measurements on your TV with the 3 most likely display types and then just go with the one whose measurement most closely align with rtings pre-calibration graphs.

Each individual TV measures differently but at least you can see from rtings, that roughly speaking, there is too much blue and red in the top end, not enough green in the low end, and a bit too much blue and red and not quite enough green in the middle.

https://i.rtings.com/assets/products/HFz1DtsS/sony-x940e/pre-white-balance-large.jpg

Sony X940E Review (XBR75X940E)

The X940E is a great large 4k HDR smart TV. It produces some of the best blacks found on LED TVs, and it can get quite bright. The excellent local dimming and ab...

www.rtings.com

Is the X940E close to the X930E? I see a ccss spectral correction file available.

Colorimeter Corrections

These can be adopted for use in ColourSpace, see here.

Another thing you can do is open up the ccss and do a visual comparison of the SPD plot with other common display type spectral plots, which you can open up in software such as DisplayCal.

 

Meter – I can’t find the receipt, but my i1 display pro is about 4 or 5 years old and I know older meters tended to drift and degrade over time and that the Calibrate Display Plus looks to be the successor to my i1 display pro. If I use this meter as is and don’t calibrate to a Spectro will the inaccuracy of my meter throw of the calibration enough for my eyes to notice or are we talking maybe I’ll get 95% of the way there but just not 100%? Looks like I can rent an X-Rite i1Studio Spectro here without breaking the bank. Would that be worth the time, cost and effort?: Lensrentals.com - Rent a X-Rite i1Studio Spectrophotometer Would it be worth the cost to upgrade to a Calibrate Display Plus or whatever the current leading consumer grade colorimeter is these days? If so, what's the general consensus as far as the leading one in the $300 price range?

Somewhere buried in the archives is some test data on older i1D3 (maybe from Tom Huffman?). The gist: generally a well stored i1D3 remains very stable since its filters are sealed. You can decode the manufacture date of i1D3 based on its serial number.

Signal Chain / RBG Limited or Full - I saw conflicting info where some said to set the TV in a limited RGB range, set the source hardware in full range, and use patterns / software with limited range. Is that still the best practice? I believe I saw a post recommending different settings if using a PGenerator with a Rasberry Pi 4 – can someone elaborate on that?

If you have Pi 4 and manually calibrating a Sony, you can just set PGen to output YCC and not worry about RGB limited vs full. We have to take extra care if we’re ”tunneling“ exact (unmapped, unconverted) RGB bit values in a full range signal, then you have to explicitly tell the TV to interpret 8-bit code 16 as black.

Also, if I’m calibrating with a signal input to my TV's HDMI port, I have a Denon x3500h that I run my external devices through. Should I leave that in the signal chain so it’s accounted for in the calibration since I use it in everyday watching assuming I turn of all video enhancements and alterations?

Yes

 

mfish234 said:
I have some questions now that I've read this thread more thoroughly. I have a 85X95L TV, Colourspace Zro, and PGenerator 1.5 using a raberry pi 4 and just an i1 display pro colorimeter.

1. Should I calibrate with motion flow clearness on 1 if that’s how I watch in all modes? There was a post here that stated that clearness does have some effect on the color so I think that should be accounted for in the calibration if that’s how I always have it set during normal viewing. Would this be a correct assumption?

2. I might attempt to perceptually match my 85X95L to my HP Laptop’s screen after calibrating the laptop's RGB balance with an 80% greyscale patch with Colourspace. In general for, a standard laptop screen, what is generally the best correlation file in Colorspace to use? I have a HP Pavilion Laptop PC 15-eg1000. This appears to be the screen it uses but this description doesn’t tell me what type of LCD tech it uses:

Amazon.com: 15.6" Screen Replacement for HP Pavilion 15-EG1000 Series LCD Display Panel 30 pin (FHD 1920 * 1080 Non-Touch) : Electronics
Amazon.com: 15.6" Screen Replacement for HP Pavilion 15-EG1000 Series LCD Display Panel 30 pin (FHD 1920 * 1080 Non-Touch) : Electronics
www.amazon.com
When I calibrated the laptop screen, with no correlation file, and then perceptually matched to my TV I found that I had to pull out a lot more blue gain from Expert 1 than just calibrating to D65 using the Mini LED (TCL C825) correlation file in Colourspace without perceptually matching. (-9 Blue gain when perceptually matching vs. -1 Blue gain when not perceptually matching). Does perceptually matching typically lead to such a large discrepancy in the 2 point RGB gains.

3. For my 85X95L mini LED what is the ideal patch size to use with my PGenerator for a 100 nit SDR calibration? And how about if I was to do a max brightness / peak luminance medium, SDR calibration to be used to base HDR10 and Dolby Vision bright on? I’m pretty sure I shouldn’t use full screen with max brightness / PL medium because of ABSL. I’m thinking maybe a 20% patch size for both 100 nit and max brightness / PL medium? If I should use a non-full screen patch size should I be using absolute black as the background?

4. If I attempt to independently calibrate the Dolby Vision bright CMS while in DV Bright mode, instead of using 75% / 75% RGBCYM patches should I maybe use 75% / 75% RGBCYM patches so I'm not trying to calibrate beyond the display's capabilities? And same question as # 3 as far as ideal patch sizes.

5. In general, when calibrating CMS after greyscale, the only change I should make is reverting contrast back from 100 to 90, correct? E.g. Leave local dimming and all other processing features off, correct?

6. I know when calibrating the 10 or 20 point greyscale contrast should be at 100. How about when I initially calibrate the RGB gain with the 2 point with a 100% white pattern - should contrast be 100 or 90?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

1) Some motion flow modes will add black frame insertion, affecting your peak output.

Check your peak output with ON/OFF of that motion setting to see if you see any difference in your output levels.

2) We use perceptual matching when a spectro and a colorimeter.

When you only have a colorimeter, and there is no available correction file for your TV model, use the display tech with the closest match to your TV model.

3+4) Check the first posts for tips regarding patch size and for calibrating different picture modes.

5+6) After the Grayscale calibration, change the contrast to 90 and calibrate CM

@ConnecTEDDD

Thanks for the advice.

1. Yes the Sony clearness function is BFI and does slightly reduce the peak output. It also seems to reduce the output accross the whole greyscale. I have do some more testing but appears that it reduces the red and green a bit more than below. So if I calibrate with BFI off and get a nice flat D65 RGB result, if I then turn on BFI and re-measure then the blue is a little higher accross the board. So with that being the case would it make sense to calibrate with BFI on since I always leave it on?

2. Got it. That makes sense. There is a new TCL C825 mini-LED correlation file for Colourspace and I'm using that one since my TV is also mini-LED. Both TV's are QD LED.

3&4 Got it. Couldn't seem to find anything regarding the patch size on page 1 of this thread. But based on other threads it sounds like 20% patch sizes with a black background are standard so I can't see why that wouldn't apply to my TV as well.

6. I know for sure I use contrast 100 for the 20 point greyscale calibration. I can't see why I wouldn't also use contrast 100 for the initial 2 point calibration, but just wanted to ensure that is the correct way to do it.

 

@ConnecTEDDD

Thanks for the advice.

1. Yes the Sony clearness function is BFI and does slightly reduce the peak output. It also seems to reduce the output accross the whole greyscale. I have do some more testing but appears that it reduces the red and green a bit more than below. So if I calibrate with BFI off and get a nice flat D65 RGB result, if I then turn on BFI and re-measure then the blue is a little higher accross the board. So with that being the case would it make sense to calibrate with BFI on since I always leave it on?

2. Got it. That makes sense. There is a new TCL C825 mini-LED correlation file for Colourspace and I'm using that one since my TV is also mini-LED. Both TV's are QD LED.

3&4 Got it. Couldn't seem to find anything regarding the patch size on page 1 of this thread. But based on other threads it sounds like 20% patch sizes with a black background are standard so I can't see why that wouldn't apply to my TV as well.

6. I know for sure I use contrast 100 for the 20 point greyscale calibration. I can't see why I wouldn't also use contrast 100 for the initial 2 point calibration, but just wanted to ensure that is the correct way to do it.

1) Calibrate with BFI ON, since you will have it active while you watch.

3+4) I don't know if the white background with a 50% patch will provide better results than a regular 20% window patch.

If someone has tested

Use Custom Background Color during Patch Generation

6) Keep the contrast at 100 during your grayscale calibration.

 

Buontinh said:
Thanks @mfish234. So what did you end up choosing for the display type when calibrating yours?

Also should I be choosing bt1886 or flat 2.2 gamma? I think rting calibrated theirs to flat 2.2

mfish234 said:
Please see my previous post. I don't remember which display type I chose. If you go through the post I linked to the options did get narrowed down but a definitive conclusion wasn't drawn. An unscientific thing you could do is go to rtings and pull up their pre-calibration graphs. Then take measurements on your TV with the 3 most likely display types and then just go with the one whose measurement most closely align with rtings pre-calibration graphs.

Each individual TV measures differently but at least you can see from rtings, that roughly speaking, there is too much blue and red in the top end, not enough green in the low end, and a bit too much blue and red and not quite enough green in the middle.

https://i.rtings.com/assets/products/HFz1DtsS/sony-x940e/pre-white-balance-large.jpg

Sony X940E Review (XBR75X940E)
The X940E is a great large 4k HDR smart TV. It produces some of the best blacks found on LED TVs, and it can get quite bright. The excellent local dimming and ab...

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Is the X940E close to the X930E? I see a ccss spectral correction file available.
Colorimeter Corrections

These can be adopted for use in ColourSpace, see here.

Another thing you can do is open up the ccss and do a visual comparison of the SPD plot with other common display type spectral plots, which you can open up in software such as DisplayCal.

I believe the 930E and 940E are similar. Not sure about the exact panel tech. I'm 99% sure in the year the 55" and 65" were 930E and the 75" was 940E. In other words, I don't think they made a 75" 930E.

 

mfish234 said:
Meter – I can’t find the receipt, but my i1 display pro is about 4 or 5 years old and I know older meters tended to drift and degrade over time and that the Calibrate Display Plus looks to be the successor to my i1 display pro. If I use this meter as is and don’t calibrate to a Spectro will the inaccuracy of my meter throw of the calibration enough for my eyes to notice or are we talking maybe I’ll get 95% of the way there but just not 100%? Looks like I can rent an X-Rite i1Studio Spectro here without breaking the bank. Would that be worth the time, cost and effort?: Lensrentals.com - Rent a X-Rite i1Studio Spectrophotometer Would it be worth the cost to upgrade to a Calibrate Display Plus or whatever the current leading consumer grade colorimeter is these days? If so, what's the general consensus as far as the leading one in the $300 price range?

Somewhere buried in the archives is some test data on older i1D3 (maybe from Tom Huffman?). The gist: generally a well stored i1D3 remains very stable since its filters are sealed. You can decode the manufacture date of i1D3 based on its serial number.

mfish234 said:
Signal Chain / RBG Limited or Full - I saw conflicting info where some said to set the TV in a limited RGB range, set the source hardware in full range, and use patterns / software with limited range. Is that still the best practice? I believe I saw a post recommending different settings if using a PGenerator with a Rasberry Pi 4 – can someone elaborate on that?

If you have Pi 4 and manually calibrating a Sony, you can just set PGen to output YCC and not worry about RGB limited vs full. We have to take extra care if we’re ”tunneling“ exact (unmapped, unconverted) RGB bit values in a full range signal, then you have to explicitly tell the TV to interpret 8-bit code 16 as black.
mfish234 said:

Also, if I’m calibrating with a signal input to my TV's HDMI port, I have a Denon x3500h that I run my external devices through. Should I leave that in the signal chain so it’s accounted for in the calibration since I use it in everyday watching assuming I turn of all video enhancements and alterations?

Yes

Glad to know that a well stored i1D3 can maintain accuracy. Mine is from 2017. I always stored it in a seal zip lock bag in a dark, indoor, climate controlled closet.

I do have a Pi4. I do set the TV's range to limited. Sounds like setting the PGen to YCC has no downside and leaves less room for error. In device control for the Pgen settings I can only chose YCbCr444 and RGB full for color format. In Colourspace on the Pegnerator tab I can chose RGB Full, YCbCr444 and YCbCr422. I guess just to keep it simple, which should I chose in both device control and in Colourspace if my I'm using 10 bit test patches.

I'll leave the x3500h in the signal patch to account for it. Thanks for that feedback.

 

I do have a Pi4. I do set the TV's range to limited. Sounds like setting the PGen to YCC has no downside and leaves less room for error. In device control for the Pgen settings I can only chose YCbCr444 and RGB full for color format. In Colourspace on the Pegnerator tab I can chose RGB Full, YCbCr444 and YCbCr422. I guess just to keep it simple, which should I chose in both device control and in Colourspace if my I'm using 10 bit test patches.

I'll leave the x3500h in the signal patch to account for it. Thanks for that feedback.

YCbCr 444 or YCbCr 422 output uses AVI for video level, so if you have AUTO in your TV's input settings, it will be OK... It's not required to set it to VIDEO/Limited.

That detail is required when you have Pi3 (or older), which has only RGB-FULL as the output colorspace, so it will need you to set the input levels to VIDEO/Limited to have 'correct' levels.

Since you use ColourSpace, use ColourSpace's GUI to set up your PGenerator.

https://www.lightillusion.com/pgenerator.html#integration-2

https://www.lightillusion.com/zippdf/pgenerator-guide.pdf

 

1. Yes the Sony clearness function is BFI and does slightly reduce the peak output. It also seems to reduce the output accross the whole greyscale. I have do some more testing but appears that it reduces the red and green a bit more than below. So if I calibrate with BFI off and get a nice flat D65 RGB result, if I then turn on BFI and re-measure then the blue is a little higher accross the board. So with that being the case would it make sense to calibrate with BFI on since I always leave it on?

When I had a FALD TV, I tried this approach. The X950H BFI had an effect of increasing red bias. When filmed in slow motion, I could see visually what was happening - here’s a freeze frame of a video shot in 240fps. This red band would scan top to bottom rapidly. I imagine if I had a higher fps camera I could catch the BFI frequency working down the rows of backlight LEDs.

It’s not worth the luminance loss in HDR, but I tried leaving it on in SDR for a while.

Couldn't seem to find anything regarding the patch size on page 1 of this thread. But based on other threads it sounds like 20% patch sizes with a black background are standard so I can't see why that wouldn't apply to my TV as well.

In general, if calibrating a LED panel in SDR luma range (~100 nits) and with local dimming off, it doesn’t really matter. You can test for yourself by measuring different patches at 10%, 20%, 100% FW, at different intensities and different background colors. You probably would find no difference.

 

I may be right back to needing to just rebuy the a90k and return the s90c. lol. I have an issue where most tvs hurt my head, but to different degrees and the samsung seems to bother it in more situations.

Are the 55 inch sony woled sets going to be mighty similar to the a90k in both calibration methods and also results? I am leaning just getting the 48 back, because kind of prefer a smaller tv in that location.

 

* 12/04 - Link to new settings: https://www.avsforum.com/threads/sony-bravia-x95l-mini-led-owners-thread.3269175/post-62919249 **

Calibrated Settings for Sony 85X95L

I know this thread isn't model specific however I gleamed some insights regarding Dolby Vision Dark vs. Dolby Vision bright peak luminance (Dolby Vision Dark has higher peak luminance), local dimming high vs. medium (local dimming high barely has any effect on peak luminance) and motion clearness 1 (has barely any effect on peak luminance). So I just figured I'd share my findings here as they may be applicable to other 2022 or 2023 Sony LED (non-OLED models).

Please note the below is a copy / paste from what I put on the 85X95L thread so I added some explanations for certain settings which may not be common knowledge. I realize the folks in this thread probably already know everything that I stated and more.

I had a chance to calibrate with my i1 display pro, using Colourspace ZRO with the TCL mini LED correlation file active, and a PGenerator Rasberry Pi 4 test pattern generator using 10 bit patches with 20% windows sizes and a black background. I literally read every post in this thread twice, as well as asked questions here and employed all the best practices and it looks great to my eyes: https://www.avsforum.com/threads/sony-calibration-overview-for-enthusiasts.3231568/

Please note my only deviation from the best practices is that I calibrated with motion clearness on 1 to account for the slight loss of luminance with this enabled but I wanted to account for it since I always leave this setting at 1 in all modes. I don't think it effects the colors or white balance, much, at all, whether at 1 or disabled, and I believe the only effect it has, from a calibration standpoint, is the slight effect on luminance. I ended up around 115 nits of calibrated SDR brightness (brightness at 4 during calibration)with a 100% white, 20% window size with clearness on 1 and after reverting contrast back to 90 after calibrating with contrast at 100 per the best practices in the above link.

I'll put out the disclaimer that copying over white balance and CMS settings is not best practice due to panel to panel variations of individual TV's but feel free to give them a try.

Picture Mode: Custom for Pro 1 SDR / HDR10 (see thread I linked to for how to unlock this picture mode utilizing the Sony Bravia Calman app and then typing in the TV's ip address in your web browser).

Brightness Menu
Brightness: SDR: 10 (adjust to your liking based on ambient light) / HDR: Max
Contrast: 90
Gamma: SDR: -2 (adjust to your liking based on ambient light. -2 is 2.4 gamma and more appropriate for dark rooms, -1 is 2.3 gamma and appropriate for dim rooms, 0 is 2.2 gamma and appropriate for lit up rooms) / HDR: 0
Black Level: 50
Black Adjust: Off
Tone Mapping: HDR: Gradation Preferred
Adv. Contrast Enhancer: Off (if you want more brightness than you can get with brightness already at max in HDR you can utilize this setting but in my experience it does raise black levels)
Auto Local Dimming: High (when testing with real content and my i1 display pro, I saw virtually no luminance loss using high vs. medium - roughly 20 nits which isn't noticeable. Blooming is less with the high setting, with virtually no peak luminance compromise, which is why I chose high)
Peak Luminance: SDR - Off / HDR - High

Color Menu
Color: SDR - 52 (can increase a little if you want some more pop. 50 is technically the most accurate) / HDR - 50 (50 is technically accurate and I find 50 plenty saturated in HDR 10 mode)
Color Temp: Expert 1
Live Color: Off (Can turn this on in SDR if you want more color "pop")

Clarity Menu
Reality Creation: Manual
Resolution: 40 (I think I prefer it higher than most. If you go too high then you'll over sharpen the picture and it will look worse. With it lower or disabled or even on auto I found the image a bit soft for my liking but this one may come down to personal preference)
Smooth Gradation: Off (Can turn this on for lower bitrate content if you see color banding but the higher you set this, the more fine details you'll lose)

Motion Menu
Motionflow
Smoothness: 1 (I think this helps make the motion a little less "stuttery" without introducing soap opera effect (SOE). With 2 or above I notice SOE)
Clearness: 1 (This is black frame insertion (BFI). This gives you more motion resolution. On older Sony's a setting of 1 would decrease brightness. On this TV I see no decrease in brightness in real content and noticed only about 20 nits of decreased brightness with my i1 display pro which is not noticeable. 2 or above does noticeably decrease brightness)
CineMotion: High

Calibrated to D65 standard whitepoint

ADV Color Temperature Menu

ADV Color Temperature Basic
R-Gain: -2
G-Gain: Max
B-Gain: Max
R-Bias: 0
G-Bias: 0
B-Bias: 0


ADV Color Temperature Multi Point (10p)

TV is very accurate out of the box

Point 1
2
12
-33 (this large decrease in blue may be because of a limitation of my colorimeter measuring low light levels and may not be accurate. Might be better to just make this one at 0. Either way this shouldn't have much effect as it only influence the darkest of dark shadow details that are slightly above pure black)

Point 2
3
5
1

Point 3
4
3
-1

Point 4
3
2
0

Point 5
3
2
-2

Point 6
3
2
0

Point 7
1
1
0

Point 8
0
0
-1

Point 9
0
0
-1

Point 10
0
-1
-1

Point 11
0
-1
-1

Point 12
0
-1
-1

Point 13
-1
-2
-2

Point 14
-1
-2
-3

Point 15
-1
-2
-3

Point 16
-1
-2
-3

Point 17
0
-1
-2

Point 18
0
-1
-2

Point 19
0
-1
-1

Point 20
0
-1
2


Per Color Adjustment:
Red:
Hue: 2
Saturation: 4
Lightness: -2

Magenta:
Hue: -6
Saturation: -2
Lightness: 0

Blue:
Hue: -2
Saturation: -2
Lightness: 1

Cyan:
Hue: 5
Saturation: -5
Lightness: 2

Green:
Hue: -7
Saturation: 0
Lightness: -2

Yellow:
Hue: -2
Saturation: 2
Lightness: 0

Picture Mode: Custom for Pro 2 for Dolby Vision Dark (see thread I linked to for how to unlock this picture mode utilizing the Sony Bravia Calman app and then typing in the TV's ip address in your web browser)

To my surprise Dolby vision dark measured higher peak luminance with a 100% white / 20% patch size window. About 150 - 200 nits higher. My colorimeter isn't certified for over 1,000 nits so the readings were a bit unstable but definitely measurably more luminance. If you like Dolby Vision bright better because of it's overall higher average picture level (APL) brightness but want the higher peak luminance of Dolby vision dark, you can just use Dolby vision dark and bump the gamma up from 0 to 1 to achieve about the same APL as Dolby vision bright.

Brightness Menu
Brightness: Max
Contrast: Max (max is the "correct" setting for Sony Dolby Vision whereas 90 is "correct" for SDR and HDR 10)
Gamma: 0 (see above about bumping up to 1 to achieve similar to Dolby Vision Bright APL - see above)
Black Level: 50
Black Adjust: Off
Tone Mapping: HDR: Off
Adv. Contrast Enhancer: Off
Peak Luminance: High

Color Menu
Color: 50 (can increase a little if you want some more pop. 50 is technically the most accurate and I find 50 plenty saturated in Dolby Vision Dark)
Color Temp: Expert 2 ** This will correspond with the 20 point white balance settings below. as those are tied to the color temp setting. 2 point white balance is tied to the input. Sony Dolby Vision dark uses a Judd white point offset in this mode and to counteract this offset and calibrate back to D65 you have to use different 20 point settings. This is discussed in detail at the link at the top of this post. **
Live Color: Off

Clarity Menu
Reality Creation: Manual
Resolution: 100 (I think I prefer it higher than most. What I found in Dolby Vision dark mode is this setting has minimal effect as compared to SDR where it is very obvious. The minimal effect I see with reality creation in Dolby Vision mode may be applicable to all 4K content regardless of SDR, HDR 10 or Dolby Vision but I didn't have time to test))
Smooth Gradation: Off

Motion Menu
Motionflow
Smoothness: 1 (I think this helps make the motion a little less "stuttery" without introducing soap opera effect (SOE). With 2 or above I notice SOE)
Clearness: 1 (This is black frame insertion (BFI). This gives you more motion resolution. On older Sony's a setting of 1 would decrease brightness. On this TV I see no decrease in brightness in real content and noticed only about 20 nits of decreased brightness with my i1 display pro which is not noticeable. 2 or above does noticeably decrease brightness)
CineMotion: High

ADV Color Temperature Menu

Calibrated to Judd white point for reasons mentioned above.

ADV Color Temperature Basic
R-Gain: -2
G-Gain: Max
B-Gain: Max
R-Bias: 0
G-Bias: 0
B-Bias: 0


ADV Color Temperature Multi Point (10p) - See above regarding Judd White point and why these are different for Dolby Vision dark

Point 1
2
12
-28 (this large decrease in blue may be because of a limitation of my colorimeter measuring low light levels and may not be accurate. Might be better to just make this one at 0. Either way this shouldn't have much effect as it only influence the darkest of dark shadow details that are slightly above pure black)

Point 2
3
4
8

Point 3
3
2
7

Point 4
2
1
6

Point 5
1
1
5

Point 6
2
1
5

Point 7
0
0
6

Point 8
0
0
6

Point 9
-1
-1
-6

Point 10
-1
-2
6

Point 11
-1
-2
6

Point 12
-1
-2
6

Point 13
-1
-3
7

Point 14
-1
-3
8

Point 15
-1
-3
8

Point 16
-1
-3
8

Point 17
0
-2
9

Point 18
-1
-2
9

Point 19
0
-2
10

Point 20
-1
-2
13


Per Color Adjustment:

Please note for Sony, the correct way to calibrate is in SDR at close to 100 nits, to 2.2 gamma with all image enhancement processing off. And then you copy over the white balance settings to HDR 10 and Dolby Vision. As far as CMS, I couldn't find consensus on whether or not to copy over the SDR derived CMS settings to Dolby Vision. You can try with the below settings vs. leaving them all at 0 to see which you like better.

Red:
Hue: 2
Saturation: 4
Lightness: -2

Magenta:
Hue: -7
Saturation: -3
Lightness: 0

Blue:
Hue: -3
Saturation: -2
Lightness: 1

Cyan:
Hue: 5
Saturation: -4
Lightness: 1

Green:
Hue: -9
Saturation: 2
Lightness: -2

Yellow:
Hue: -2
Saturation: 2
Lightness: -1

 

What are everyone's thoughts on netflix calibrated mode and imax enhanced?

My assumption is that if you have everything calibrated as best as possible in the custom pro modes, then you shouldn't be using either of those features / modes but maybe I'm missing something.

I know I've already used my 2 expert available color temperatures slots but would there be any benefit to doing maybe a 3rd calibration meant for imax enhanced using maybe warm color temperature and use this picture mode when watching movies with imax aspect ratio scenes?

As far as netflix calibrated, let's say I'm watching something in Dolby Vision dark on Netflix, am I correct to assume that enabling netflix calibrated mode would throw off my calibration? I would imagine its just either overriding or offsetting the existing settings, which I wouldn't want since they're already calibrated and optimized, not adding some sort of scene by scene Dolby visioneque metadata that optimizes on a scene by scene basis is it? Even if that's what it does, Dolby Vision already does this.

Regarding netflix calibrated mode would the answer be any different when watching SDR content utilizing my already calibrated picture mode?

Thanks!

 

Netflix Calibrated is essentially another type (similar) to a filmmaker mode or "most accurate" out of the box recommended settings. If you are calibrated, or use Sony's already accurate "Custom" ootb mode, you can ignore Netflix Calibrated.

 

So I just did an experiment on my 85X95L. I see that the OLED guys sometimes crank up the RGB Gain in the service menu to increase peak luminance. Figured I'd give it a whirl on my set even though it's already pretty darn bright. Ootb Dolby Vision Dark, surprisingly put out about 300 or so more nits than Dolby Vision bright - that's measured at 100% white luminance in a 20% window size. Obviously DV bright appears brighter in real content because it raises the overall APL and I prefer that brighter punchier picture. Since for whatever reason, on this set, DV Bright is capped at a lower peak luminance I wanted to see what I could do to bridge the gap and it worked!

I don't have the version of the i1 display pro that is certified over 1,000 nits so my measurements may be a bit off plus I think there is some sort of ABL kicking in if you leave the pattern on the screen for too long. But based on average measurements I gained a good 200 nits in DV bright and went from an average of about 1,300 up to about 1,500 (before ABL started lowering subsequent measurements a little bit). DV dark can now hit up an average of about 1,750. I know I won't notice 200 nits more much at those already high levels and it'll only really come into play in specular highlights but good to know I'm maxing out my hardware.

I already calibrated using the user menu 2 point, 20 point and CMS. To raise the nits, I increased RGB all from 512 up to 532 in the service menu. I took measurements above 532 but didn't see any further increases in nits so I think that's maxing out the display.

I figured that by doing this I'd probably throw the gamma out of whack as I thought I'd increase points 11 - 20 without much increase to points 1 -10 and possibly the RGB balance if I ended up clipping any of the channels.

When I remeasured after this service menu change (with all other previously calibrated settings the same) I was pleasantly surprised that my RGB was still ruler flat with super low de and my gamma EOTF was tracking more or less perfectly.

Are there any pitfalls I may have ran into by doing this that I should be checking for?

I'm using colourpace ZRO. The Dif EOTF chart deviates from the line toward the very left and right of the chart. I know the left is probably my meter struggling to measure low light levels but maybe the right of the chart might indicate I'm clipping one or more of the channels? And I'm not exactly sure what toggling absolute error on the EOTF and Dif EOTF graphs tells me. Also, is there anything in the Clip chart I should be looking at specifically? At the end of the day I don't think I would visually notice if the white balance is a little off in extreme specular highlights so maybe it's OK to clip 1 or 2 channels if that overall gets me more luminance?

Lastly, if I want to see if I can squeeze a little more out of it by increasing the gains more in the service menu is there any specific test pattern I can display to more scientifically measure if I'm clipping any of the channels? I have a raspberry pi 4 Pgenerator with Ted's LightSpace patterns on it. If I was to display this test pattern I'm pretty sure I should display with max brightness and local dimming on high or medium and peak luminance on high, right? And probably display in both SDR and DV and probably regular HDR10 as well, right?

Thanks!

 

is there any specific test pattern I can display to more scientifically measure if I'm clipping any of the channels?

Put up an hdr grayscale ramp and color ramps to visually see how much clipping you’re introducing. There’s no free lunch.

I’m curious, did you measure native contrast in sdr with local dimming off?

 

Does anyone have any AWP's for any of the recent Sony mini-LED's that they are happy with? I've been reading a lot about metamerism and the AWP's that the OLED guys use. I had an 85X900F for about 3 years calibrated to D65 (to the best of my ability using a non-profiled i1 display pro). So I believe my eyes are accustomed to D65 as opposed to many people who are accustomed to colder color temperatures.

I did a D65 and Judd white point calibration on my 85X95L. I'm using the Judd wp for DV dark to account for the built in offset. Yesterday I was tinkering and I critically viewed skin tones using the Judd white point calibration (stored in Expert 2) with SDR, HDR and DV bright and I actually think it looks better / more natural with the Judd white point. The D65 white point looked too green.

That's the same reported "too green" impression that a lot of the OLED guys get when calibrating to D65 WP. And that would make sense. Rtings sent me their spd measurements and another member plotted it here: https://www.avsforum.com/threads/sp...eads/spectral-corrections-ccss-edr-sharing-tools-analysis.3268914/post-62902216 We can see that my TV is very peaky just like modern OLED's. So I think the commonality is the use of quantum docs causing peaky response.

Here are a bunch of suggested AWP's that I've found but most are OLED specific. I'd prefer not to spend all the time and effort to try them all so I wanted to see if anyone else has already been down this road with a modern Sony mini-LED.

[https://www.avsforum.com/threads/sp...eads/spectral-corrections-ccss-edr-sharing-tools-analysis.3268914/post-62902216
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/2021-sony-master-series-a90j-oled-owners-thread-no-price-talk.3184217/post-61650013
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/calman-home-for-lg.3067446/post-59846524
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/calman-home-for-lg.3067446/post-59847948

Also, if I want to make DV dark (with an expert 1 or 2 color temp) match the other picture modes, then at the end of the day, the TV adds an X offset of 0.006 and y offset of 0.011, then I should subtract those amounts from my target xy for DV dark? E.g. If settle on Judd 0.3067 / 0.318 for SDR, HDR and DV bright, then to bring DV dark back to Judd I should I calibrate DV dark to 0.3007 / 0.307, right?

 

@mfish234, If you end up calibrating your 85X95L again, can you please do a luminance sweep for blue and post the results? Results from anyone else that owns it (or similar 85X95K) would also be appreciated. I've read a report (Link) that there is any issue with the blue primary leaning towards purple/violet and would like to determine if this a widespread problem on this model. Thanks.

 

I've read a report (Link)

that thread is crazy lol.

I generated a test chart for hcfr with what I think you’re asking for, check out the attached. For some reason de calc on user generated test chart seems broken.

results are from my 85x93l in custom mode with brightness at 30 and local dimming off. Idk what constitutes a significant tracking error so I’ll leave interpretation to the reader.

 

Unfortunately i don't know how to measure native contrast (in sdr with local dimming off). If Colourspace ZRO. If you know how to do that I can take that measure.

You can find Contrast Ratio in a couple of spots when using ColourSpace ZRO.

As mentioned previously, measurements of 0% black and 100% white are required.

In the settings window, the Contrast Ratio will be shown under "Target Luma" in the "CR" field.

It will also be shown in the manual measure window, also under "CR".

 

@10k @titleexaminer92 @ConnecTEDDD

Thanks for all the guidance. Hope everyone enjoyed their holidays too.

I'll do a blue luminance sweep shortly, when I have more time, but here is feedback on native contrast and clipping with the RGB increased in the service menu (R - 528, G - 532 and B - 532).

For everything below I left my calibrated settings for 2 point, 10 point and CMS in place.

Local dimming off for all native contrast measurements and the service menu values increased.

Brightness 1 / Contrast 90

Brightness 1 / Contrast 100

Brightness 4 / Contrast 90

Brightness 4 / Contrast 100

I do have some white and color clipping. However, I really didn't see a difference whether I used the default service menu values or increased service menu values. Could I maybe be able to have my cake and eat it too? Or is the fact that I'm getting some clipping with default service menu values indicative of my 2 point, 10 point and CMS calibration being incorrect?

These were in HDR10 - Brightness Max, Contrast 90, all enhancers off ( adv contrast enhancer, black adjust, etc.), local dimming high, peak luminance high, Gradation preferred, Color 50. I did notice if I changed tone mapping to off the clipping got a little worse and Cyan got very washed and looked completely different from 85% - 100%.

Here are smart phone pics and I know they don't reflect what I see in real life.

Default service menu settings

increased service menu values

 

@10k @titleexaminer92 @ConnecTEDDD

Thanks for all the guidance. Hope everyone enjoyed their holidays too.

I'll do a blue luminance sweep shortly, when I have more time, but here is feedback on native contrast and clipping with the RGB increased in the service menu (R - 528, G - 532 and B - 532).

For everything below I left my calibrated settings for 2 point, 10 point and CMS in place.

Local dimming off for all native contrast measurements and the service menu values increased.

Brightness 1 / Contrast 90
View attachment 3539173

Brightness 1 / Contrast 100

View attachment 3539179

Brightness 4 / Contrast 90
View attachment 3539180

Brightness 4 / Contrast 100

View attachment 3539181

I do have some white and color clipping. However, I really didn't see a difference whether I used the default service menu values or increased service menu values. Could I maybe be able to have my cake and eat it too? Or is the fact that I'm getting some clipping with default service menu values indicative of my 2 point, 10 point and CMS calibration being incorrect?

These were in HDR10 - Brightness Max, Contrast 90, all enhancers off ( adv contrast enhancer, black adjust, etc.), local dimming high, peak luminance high, Gradation preferred, Color 50. I did notice if I changed tone mapping to off the clipping got a little worse and Cyan got very washed and looked completely different from 85% - 100%.

Here are smart phone pics and I know they don't reflect what I see in real life.

Default service menu settings

View attachment 3539196

increased service menu values

View attachment 3539197

good stuff. The native contrast is around 500 higher than my 85 93L, which probably explains fully the difference in local dimming performance.

the HDR color clipping will always be there it’s just how Sony decided to do the tone mapping. If they didn’t clip the peaks the overall picture level would have to be noticeably too dark and under track eotf to accommodate the lack of the display ability to hit the highest nit levels. If you’re seeing differences in clipping between service menu adjustments on and off I would leave it off and just trust Sony tone mapping to do its job

turning tone mapping off will result in extra clipping, with it off the display will not attempt to “fit” the full hdr range into its capabilities. It’s up to you to decide which picture you prefer. The warehouse fight scene in Batman vs Superman has some extraordinary bright highlights in it in explosions and lightning so you can use that to compare various settings and pick a level of detail that you prefer.

 

I greatly appreciate everyone’s insights. This thread is always an interesting read. I just got the x95l and am going to try @mfish234 settings tomorrow and see how they look on mine.

 

@RetroGiant

Curious what you thought of my settings. And I'd also suggest trying my new ones out.

Updated 85X95L settings suggestions: https://www.avsforum.com/threads/sony-bravia-x95l-mini-led-owners-thread.3269175/post-62919249

My observations regarding DV bright vs. DV dark black levels with Kodi and commentary on DV tone mapping / gamma / and black adjust setting behavior: https://www.avsforum.com/threads/so...-owners-thread.3269175/page-301#post-62994230

 

Doing the above calibration on my 85x93L I noted that enabling motionflow clearness impacts white balance considerably. It makes sense since the miniLED are blue and strobing them will result in less blue light output, but it appears that Sony doesnt automatically make any adjustments to white balance when motionflow clearness is enabled or disabled.

reference measurements below

motionflow clearness off

motionflow clearness 1

 

Very interesting. So I guess it’s advised to set your motion to your liking first then calibrate. I have an x1 and HCFR which I used in the past so I would be learning all over again.