LG 2017 OLED Calibration Thread and Settings - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 30 Old 05-26-2017, 01:12 PM - Thread Starter
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LG 2017 OLED Calibration and Settings

I could not find a LG 2017 calibration thread so here is one.
Since all 2017 LG's use the same chipsets, one thread should do it.

My 65 C7 came yesterday and looked pretty good out of the box.
Without burn-in, I know I will be doing it again but it's good practice.

Gear: I1Ddisplay 3, I1Pro2, Lumagen 2020 (for patterns), and Calman 2017 beta.

Display Setup


- All enhancements off.
- C7 Gamma BT.1886
- Set the black level on a full back screen
- WB Warm 2

Calman Setup:

- Selected a profile on hand
- Gamma Target BT.1886
- Black Level set to .0034 (from @chadb B6 recommendations)
- Adjust 2 point High with 100% white, no adjustment needed to Low.
- Run a sweep and offline adjust luminance only
- Run a sweep and adjust luminance where all are even and RGB using 2-clicks from each 1% off.
- Repeat sweep a few times with minor adjustments offline
- Live TV content is displayed between sweeps

The results looked very nice.
However, overnight I ran Clear panel noise and things changed a bit.

I did not capture the calibration but as I recall the DE Mas was under 1%.

Today it is a bit different.
This is the profile used last night although I;ll be doing that again as well.

Next time, I will perform a Panel Clear and play content for a while before calibrating.

Attached are the D3 readings this morning with the

- I1D3 in RAW mode no profile
- I1D3 with an older profile (used last night)
- I1D3 Oled no profile

These were taken one after another and they definately vary.
Withtout a spectro to profile, I would be inclinded to choose RAW for my I1D3.

I'll do another run with a new profile against the I1Pro2 soon.

- Rich
Attached Thumbnails
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Last edited by RichB; 05-26-2017 at 01:23 PM. Reason: LG 2017 OLED Calibration and Settings
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post #2 of 30 Old 05-26-2017, 01:42 PM
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I sort of gave up on getting 20-point GS perfect once I realized how unstable these things were. I'd get everything perfect, I'd run a series and it'd be perfect, then the next day I'd run it again and everything would be off. I've even noticed it changing even within 5-10 minutes. It's very frustrating.
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post #3 of 30 Old 05-26-2017, 02:24 PM
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You absolutely do not need to do this on the 2017 sets. It actually makes near black worse.

- Black Level set to .0034 (from @chadb B6 recommendations)
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post #4 of 30 Old 05-26-2017, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by conner127e View Post
I sort of gave up on getting 20-point GS perfect once I realized how unstable these things were. I'd get everything perfect, I'd run a series and it'd be perfect, then the next day I'd run it again and everything would be off. I've even noticed it changing even within 5-10 minutes. It's very frustrating.
Hi, you have to wait about 1 hour for the display electronics to warm up before doing any measurement, gamma is changing a lot until about 50 minute where it will be stabilize.

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post #5 of 30 Old 05-26-2017, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi, you have to wait about 1 hour for the display electronics to warm up before doing any measurement, gamma is changing a lot until about 50 minute where it will be stabilize.
+1. TV in time and room temp matter when reverifying your calibration.
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post #6 of 30 Old 05-26-2017, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi, you have to wait about 1 hour for the display electronics to warm up before doing any measurement, gamma is changing a lot until about 50 minute where it will be stabilize.
In that case, what's the point of calibration? I'm not waiting 50 minutes for the display to warm up to its calibrated state every time I turn on the television.
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post #7 of 30 Old 05-27-2017, 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by bizwig View Post
In that case, what's the point of calibration? I'm not waiting 50 minutes for the display to warm up to its calibrated state every time I turn on the television.
When you are calibrating you have to start with stuff that have to performed right, like display/projector meters warm-up before taking any measurement.

Any display technology acts differently the first minutes after power it on. LED's are very bright and become darker, projectors the opposite, OLED's start with 2.8 gamma and if you take Grayscale readings per 5 minutes you will see that this is changing until to about 50-60 minutes which will become 2.4.

There article related with warmup period of different displays technology here: http://www.spectracal.com/downloads/...s%20Enough.pdf

So if you take measurements when your display is still changing it's output, it's only a waste of time because you will require other combination of adjustments when the display will reach it's stability output level.

Even meters need warm-up, you need to have them connected/powered their USB for about 20-30min......usually users confuse warm up (it's doesn't mean to let the meter on-contact with the display to become warmer from display's heat, warm up means the meter to be connected and powered from the USB, not become warm from the panel..just leave their USB plug connected with your notebook for some time before starting measurements.) The recommended warm up time is about 20-30 min. The exact time depends from the temperature conditions. It can be longer if the device came from out side in winter time and will be shorter if stored at room temperature.

When you want to watch a movie, open the display and let a TV station play for some time before starting to watch your movie.

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post #8 of 30 Old 05-27-2017, 12:53 AM
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I'm aware of warm up. I contend it's unstable even so. Even after being on for hours.
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post #9 of 30 Old 05-27-2017, 03:35 AM
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conner,

Are you doing anything between calibrations runs to keep the screen up to operating temperatures?

In other words, are you running some kind of pattern on the screen rather than just letting it go black?

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post #10 of 30 Old 05-27-2017, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by conner127e View Post
I'm aware of warm up. I contend it's unstable even so. Even after being on for hours.

As has already been stated, TV powered on time (aka warm up) and room temperature will impact readings. I've measured repeatable results with my OLEDs days, weeks and months apart when taking into account the above. If you are seeing different.... are you taking the above into account? If so, then it is your meter.
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post #11 of 30 Old 05-27-2017, 07:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
You absolutely do not need to do this on the 2017 sets. It actually makes near black worse.

- Black Level set to .0034 (from @chadb B6 recommendations)


Yes, I inherited that from the B6 workflow. I'll redo it in a few days.
I put on Cinema mode with BT.1186 and set the same settings. This TV is fantastic OOTB.


- Rich
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post #12 of 30 Old 05-27-2017, 07:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post
As has already been stated, TV powered on time (aka warm up) and room temperature will impact readings. I've measured repeatable results with my OLEDs days, weeks and months apart when taking into account the above. If you are seeing different.... are you taking the above into account? If so, then it is your meter.

In this case, I don't think I let it warm up enough. Anyway, There are different results based on meter settings.
I get some variability profiling the D3 using the I1Pro2. I'll work on tightening the methodology with meter and TV warmup.

Does aperture make a difference? If so, what is the proper distance when profiling these two meters determined?

- Rich

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post #13 of 30 Old 05-27-2017, 07:44 AM
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You really need to scan and read this thread -> CalMan 5 Release Notes and Discussion

All your answers are there.

Bottom line, the OLEDs are less stable than LCDs for many reasons. ABL, ASBL, etc.. which all effect your calibration. If you are looking to calibrate the set then go back the next day and get the same exact readings, you would have to warm up all your equipment the same amount of time, make sure your room is the same exact temperature, use the same profile for the meter, and even then the panel may shift slightly, so it's not "realistic". You are "always" going to see some slight drift.

You should just do all of the things that everyone has recommended above and then calibrate in one session and that's it, then go back periodically and re-calibrate if you want. This is not an "exact" science.

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post #14 of 30 Old 05-27-2017, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post
Yes, I inherited that from the B6 workflow. I'll redo it in a few days.
I put on Cinema mode with BT.1186 and set the same settings. This TV is fantastic OOTB.


- Rich
The 0.0034 is in nits, not fL. Even then, you're missing a zero as it should be 0.00034 nits. For fL, it would translate to 0.0001fL.
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post #15 of 30 Old 05-27-2017, 07:54 AM
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Are using the JUDD OLED white or D65?

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post #16 of 30 Old 05-27-2017, 07:56 AM
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oh, i posted this on another thread, but here is a calibration i did for gaming.

Gaming mode Calibration:
LG 65" E7 (but all the 2017 screens are the same)

Do note, that all TVs are a little different so this might look different on your TV than mine. But when going into PC mode and using one of the ISF presets the colors are off (still much better than using the gaming preset)
Here is what I got after a few hours of work: (There is still a slight blue push) But it should be better than the default.

First, make sure your input is named PC and the icon is set to the PC.
second, make sure Ultra Deep colors are on. (it is General settings on the TV, there is a toggle for each input)
Third, for non-HDR content use 8bit, RGB, Full

This was calibrated using Calman 5 and a SpectraCal C6-HDR Colorimeter. 10% window.

Settings all play off each other, just taking some isn't very helpful.

Input named PC
ISF Expert (Dark Room)
OLED Light: 49
Contrast: 84
Bright: 52
Color: 55
Expert -
Color Gamut: Wide (Auto can we wacky so better for force it to something)
Gama: 2.4

White Balance-
Color temperature: Warm3
Method: 2 point (i'm lazy)
Pattern: Outer
Low-
Red: 2
Green: 2
Blue: 2
High-
Red: -10
Green: 0
Blue: 31

Color Management System (CMS)
(Color, Saturation, Tint, Luminance)
RED: -12, 15, -3
Green: -20, -30, -1
Blue: -5, 11, -2
Cyan: -30, 4, 1 <-- I had the most problems with this
Magenta: -16, -7, -1
Yellow: -22, -3, 0

Picture Options:
Almost everything should already be mostly disabled. If it isn't, then you aren't in PC mode. Only these two should be options.
Black Level: Auto (which i think it is defaulting to High.. )
Motion Eye Care: Off

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Last edited by zielin; 05-27-2017 at 08:00 AM.
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post #17 of 30 Old 05-27-2017, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post
In this case, I don't think I let it warm up enough. Anyway, There are different results based on meter settings.
I get some variability profiling the D3 using the I1Pro2. I'll work on tightening the methodology with meter and TV warmup.

Does aperture make a difference? If so, what is the proper distance when profiling these two meters determined?

- Rich
Yes aperture matters. This can help....

http://www.displaycalibrationtools.c...ze-calculator/
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post #18 of 30 Old 05-27-2017, 07:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post
The 0.0034 is in nits, not fL. Even then, you're missing a zero as it should be 0.00034 nits. For fL, it would translate to 0.0001fL.
0.0034 cdm2 (squared).

- Rich

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post #19 of 30 Old 05-27-2017, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by zielin View Post
Are using the JUDD OLED white or D65?
JUDD OLED white doesn't work well on these WRGB type OLED (both LG and Sony are trying the mimic this with their default Pro modes). The best way is perceptual matching until the industry figures out how to resolve metameric failure with narrow spectral band displays. If you can't do a perceptual match, just use D65 as the white point.
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post #20 of 30 Old 05-27-2017, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post
0.0034 cdm2 (squared).

- Rich
Which is nits

Not sure why you would want to use a default black level of 0.001fL on an OLED..... you need to add a zero if you want to be remotely close to to official recommendations when hardcoding a black level on an OLED for calibration purposes.
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post #21 of 30 Old 05-27-2017, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post
Does aperture make a difference? If so, what is the proper distance when profiling these two meters determined?

- Rich
Hey Rich, we have talked about this here: The Official ChromaPure thread

I'm posting the link for the other users to see.
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post #22 of 30 Old 06-01-2017, 05:04 AM
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Bought a new 65B7 this week. My last TV was a 55EC930V.

I have to say that the B7 is a much better TV. But I can see a more pronounced banding on this set than what I had in the EC930. I hope it improves with time.

So far what I found more interesting was the black tuning control. The B7 allows for a much more fine brightness tuning than the EC930. Yesterday, I had to decrease the brightness to 51 in order to really have 100% blacks. Level 52 seemed black until I stuck my nose in front of the panel and saw a very, very dim light.

I'm letting my panel to have some hours of use before I try any calibration because it really is changing each day. I started with a brightness of 54 for instance, now is 51. Colors are different too.

Does anyone know how I can check the number of hours of use and the number of panel recalibrations?
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post #23 of 30 Old 06-01-2017, 06:58 AM
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Folks, in case you are interested, I did Color Volume scans of the C7 and the A1. You can view them here -> Sony A1E Calibration Thread

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post #24 of 30 Old 06-01-2017, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepelegal View Post
Bought a new 65B7 this week. My last TV was a 55EC930V.

I have to say that the B7 is a much better TV. But I can see a more pronounced banding on this set than what I had in the EC930. I hope it improves with time.

So far what I found more interesting was the black tuning control. The B7 allows for a much more fine brightness tuning than the EC930. Yesterday, I had to decrease the brightness to 51 in order to really have 100% blacks. Level 52 seemed black until I stuck my nose in front of the panel and saw a very, very dim light.

I'm letting my panel to have some hours of use before I try any calibration because it really is changing each day. I started with a brightness of 54 for instance, now is 51. Colors are different too.

Does anyone know how I can check the number of hours of use and the number of panel recalibrations?
You don't need to adjust the brightness on these 2017 sets like you did on the 2016 sets. I've "played" with it and you kill the black when you raise the brightness. The only thing you can do if you want is raise it 1 click to 51 but not more than that or you will not get true blacks when watching good content.

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post #25 of 30 Old 06-01-2017, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
You don't need to adjust the brightness on these 2017 sets like you did on the 2016 sets. I've "played" with it and you kill the black when you raise the brightness. The only thing you can do if you want is raise it 1 click to 51 but not more than that or you will not get true blacks when watching good content.
jrref,

On Monday when I received my set I had to raise the brightness to 54 because I had a very strong black crush (pq was too dark overall). But yesterday I had to adjust again and had to reduce it to 51 in order to have the right level (100% black level).

And, from what you mention I will probably have to adjust it again to level 50 (the original value)...maybe that means the panel has "matured". I'm really noticing the panel changing with more hours of use.

Thats why I don't even attempt to calibrate it now until it settles a little bit. I think my set only has around 10-15 hours of use so far...

I have some questions:

1) Did you noticed any improvement with the banding with the increase use of the set ?
2) Any idea of how many hours until the panel "settles" to try calibrating it?
3) Is it a good idea to force a "Panel Clear" in order to see if the banding improves ?

Thanks.
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post #26 of 30 Old 06-01-2017, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepelegal View Post
jrref,

On Monday when I received my set I had to raise the brightness to 54 because I had a very strong black crush (pq was too dark overall). But yesterday I had to adjust again and had to reduce it to 51 in order to have the right level (100% black level).

And, from what you mention I will probably have to adjust it again to level 50 (the original value)...maybe that means the panel has "matured". I'm really noticing the panel changing with more hours of use.

Thats why I don't even attempt to calibrate it now until it settles a little bit. I think my set only has around 10-15 hours of use so far...

I have some questions:

1) Did you noticed any improvement with the banding with the increase use of the set ?
2) Any idea of how many hours until the panel "settles" to try calibrating it?
3) Is it a good idea to force a "Panel Clear" in order to see if the banding improves ?

Thanks.
My recommendation is to do one Panel Clear when you get the set. It won't hurt anything and will clear up any minor issues and make sure that the voltages are "leveled" across the screen. If you do your own calibration, you can wait about 50 hours then do an initial adjustment but normally you need at least 200-250 hours before the screen settles to do a calibration. Yes, in my case, I have noticed that whatever banding remains, it will get slightly better over time but eventually it is what it is.

As far as your black situation, part of it is that the screen is settling and the other part is that your eyes are adjusting and your brain is getting used to the OLED picture When it's all said and done, unless you have the OLED light way down, you are probably going to have brightness set at 50 or 51.
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post #27 of 30 Old 06-01-2017, 08:22 AM
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You don't need to adjust the brightness on these 2017 sets like you did on the 2016 sets. I've "played" with it and you kill the black when you raise the brightness. The only thing you can do if you want is raise it 1 click to 51 but not more than that or you will not get true blacks when watching good content.
This will be dependent on signal type. LG still has not learned how to make this universal. RGB signals still requires a different brightness setting compared to 4:4:4. 1080i/60 still requires a different brightness setting compared to 1080p/24. On my 65 C7, it's either 51 or 52 but never 50 unless we are talking about HDR.
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post #28 of 30 Old 06-16-2017, 03:07 PM
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What ire's do you folks use to calibrate the HDR 2pt? 30/80? 30/70? Any feedback on which works best?

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post #29 of 30 Old Today, 08:02 AM
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How much better can a oled tv like the c7 look after a professional calibration?
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post #30 of 30 Old Today, 08:31 AM - Thread Starter
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How much better can a oled tv like the c7 look after a professional calibration?

It depends on how far off it is. Some of the review show quite a bit of drift in the C7 grayscale. Once that is fixed, the colors are very close. Much better then the B6.
I can calibrate SDR but my meters don't stack up against the pro's. I have not had the opportunity to calibrate HDR. The tone-mapping is a bit more aggressive than I would like, without Dynamic Contrast=Low, there are many films that appear dark in the mid-tones.

I'd like the option to chose tone-mapping approaches on the C7. Dynamic Contrast=Low produces a big change but thus far, this is my choice.

Back to your original question, @ChadB ;calibrated my B6 and had the experience to correct many of its issues that I simply did not know nor have the experience to fix. He also calibrated HDR. You are also paying for this experience. Once completed, I copied his SDR settings to Cinema mode and used my meters to get the DE vanishing low. My meters are not as accurate as a pro's, but in the end, I could switch between the two settings and could not tell the difference.

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