IMO, most people tend to look at in-walls as a last resort when anything else isn't an option.


There are so many more, better, more well matched, etc. options out there if you don't restrict yourself to something that has to fit in a wall. There are certainly exceptions. Companies like Triad, Snell, etc. make excellent in-wall systems. It's just not the majority's choice.

 

I feel for you pappy. I bought some inwalls for my bar area I'm building, asked a few questions, and all I really got for a response was "ask the manufacturer".


True, that's a valid option, but what if that was the answer for everything? ^_^;

 

Newer in wall speaker have made dramatic improvements in sound quality. The problem with in wall speakers is that few places have them available for auditioning. People talk about what they know. Since most members have floor standing speakers you'll get plenty of information about bookshelf, satellite and tower speakers.

 

Quote:

Originally posted by pappy999 Why is it when I do a search for in-wall speakers, none of the threads are responded to very well? Are in-wall/in-ceiling speakers frowned upon in the "Upper end" audio world?

Beyond the reasons provided, a big issue is that most people that frequent these boards are tweakers - they fiddle, they reposition, they make obscenely tiny changes in their setups to maximize the results or, more accurately, to maximize their enjoyment of their equipment regardless of actual improvement.


With in-walls, tweaking is just not possible, so we hate them for taking away our fun.






Bill

 

Has anyone ever set up in-wall/in-ceiling speakers? I need some pointers!

 

Quote:

Originally posted by pappy999 Has anyone ever set up in-wall/in-ceiling speakers? I need some pointers!

Maybe folks over on the true "HT" forums as opposed to this "audio" forum might be better equipped to answer your questions. Like the others said before me.... we talk about what we have and what we've done or what we know.


My guess would be that a lack of responses is an indicater that, in this forum area anyway, most of us don't have any experience with in walls so can't really comment on them. I know I don't or can't.... sorry.





John W.

Indy

 

We install them all the time. What info are you looking for?


Bob

 

Inwall and ceiling speakers are the Rodney Dangerfield of audio...they get no respect. Most purists and enthusiasts don't take them seriously partly because of the usually mediocre quality, and partly because of the less-than-ideal placement. Upscale consumers in general have different criteria than most of us here, however, and most of the time they have no use for bulky black monoliths sticking into their lives. "I'm not having that ugly R2D2 thingie in MY living room" is something every custom installer has heard many times.


So, the usual alternative is the client winds up with inexpensive, open-back speakers, and the wife is again happy, but the man has to endure the mundane sound. There are a few companies that actually make ceiling and inwall speakers of high quality for specific applications. They sound great and disappear. Snell has done a nice job historically, as well as Atlantic. More recently, James Loudspeaker and JM Labs have offered products that sound wonderful, and disappear into the environment. I wouldn't force products like these upon hobbyist/enthusiasts, because we will endure big ugly boxes dominating a room...but most people won't. There is little interest here in custom speakers, because most of us won't compromise one iota...and I don't even know what an iota is!


Here's an example of a Triad 5.1 ceiling speaker system ($8500 retail) that completely disappears, with the paint custom matched. The baffles are 45 degrees, aimed at the listener behind a flush grill. This is my new office. The front speakers are in a staggered array, and the sub is behind them...


http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2002-...-CASITA016.jpg

 

Quote:

Originally posted by Paul Scarpelli This is my new office.

Well, MY sympathy just went out the window.


In all seriousness though, why do I count 4 speakers up front in the ceiling? Or is that one white square that's farther back something else? Thanks!

 

Quote:

Originally posted by pappy999 Why is it when I do a search for in-wall speakers, none of the threads are responded to very well? Are in-wall/in-ceiling speakers frowned upon in the "Upper end" audio world?

Since you asked... I'd say they're frowned upon by anyone who values sound over aesthetics (and I'm one of those): upper end, middle end or lower end. I personally will not compromise my music and frankly have little sympathy or interest in those that do. When folks at work who know I'm a sound nut ask me about inwalls, my eyes glaze over, I tune out, and mutter I know nothing about them.

 

Quote:

Originally posted by chirpie Well, MY sympathy just went out the window. In all seriousness though, why do I count 4 speakers up front in the ceiling? Or is that one white square that's farther back something else? Thanks!

The front three speakers are in an arc, and the speaker you see in the back is a sub. The grills are the same size. The white thingie is a window. The blinds arrived Friday, and I promise I'll get them installed soon...

 

Quote:

Originally posted by tonygeno Since you asked... I'd say they're frowned upon by anyone who values sound over aesthetics (and I'm one of those): upper end, middle end or lower end. I personally will not compromise my music and frankly have little sympathy or interest in those that do. When folks at work who know I'm a sound nut ask me about inwalls, my eyes glaze over, I tune out, and mutter I know nothing about them.

You certainly win the elitist award of the day, though I think you are actually not being truthful.


I bet you do compromise your music - every day. Unless you have the best equipment on the planet, had your room professionally built for your music, and upgrade the equipment/room every time an advancement occurs, then you have compromised your music. Actually, unless you bring live music into your home, you are compromising your music regardless of the equipment you have since no system can reproduce live music perfectly.


That said, though I probably succeeded in doing so, I am not attempting to insult you in any way. I am just pointing out that all of us make compromises - some with money, some with aesthetics, and some with convenience (such as MP3). Regardless, life is a big fat compromise.



Bill

 

Quote:

Originally posted by tonygeno Since you asked... I'd say they're frowned upon by anyone who values sound over aesthetics (and I'm one of those): upper end, middle end or lower end.

So do you think less of me since I put inwalls in my bar area? ;-)

 

Quote:

Originally posted by Paul Scarpelli The white thingie is a window.

Great, another new technology being employed and I'm the last to know! ^_^

 

Quote:

Originally posted by Billped You certainly win the elitist award of the day, though I think you are actually not being truthful.

There is nothing "elitist" about valuing sound quality over visual appearances. You are posting in a forum comprised mainly of folks who are trying to improve the sound of their system, not the appearance of their living rooms. After all this isn't an Architectural Digest forum.


No one has even hinted we aren't making compromises, just that we are seeking better sound rather than inconspicuous sound.


I've heard many times around here that in-wall speakers will usually end up costing about 2X the price of freestanding speakers for the same quality of sound. Personally I don't believe it is even possible to get that close to the sound quality of a good free standing speaker system with in-walls. But I do have to admit I've never heard in-walls from either Triad or other high end companies.

 

Quote:

Originally posted by chirpie So do you think less of me since I put inwalls in my bar area? ;-)

No less than of my friends who put plasmas and in-walls in their bathrooms.


Background music has its place.

 

Quote:

Originally posted by Carl Brinkman There is nothing "elitist" about valuing sound quality over visual appearances. You are posting in a forum comprised mainly of folks who are trying to improve the sound of their system, not the appearance of their living rooms. After all this isn't an Architectural Digest forum. No one has even hinted we aren't making compromises, just that we are seeking better sound rather than inconspicuous sound. I've heard many times around here that in-wall speakers will usually end up costing about 2X the price of freestanding speakers for the same quality of sound. Personally I don't believe it is even possible to get that close to the sound quality of a good free standing speaker system with in-walls. But I do have to admit I've never heard in-walls from either Triad or other high end companies.

I agree with you, Carl, to a great extent. This is not an Architectural Digest forum, but there is always at least some consideration for how the speakers physically integrate into a room, unless it's a dedicated, man-of-the-house-only sound room. I'll bet that's 20% of what is talked about here. I am, personally, with you on valuing sound quality over industrial design.


By the way, Triad InWalls, OnWalls, and InCeiling speakers are identical to their InRoom counterparts, using the same rigid enclosures with the same internal volume, and the same drivers, with crossovers modified for custom placement. The cost is usually 10% more than our In Room speakers.

 

Very few of us have them or experience with different ones.

 

Quote:

Originally posted by Billped You certainly win the elitist award of the day, though I think you are actually not being truthful.

I've never won anything in my life. This is a start.

Quote:

Originally posted by Billped I bet you do compromise your music - every day. Unless you have the best equipment on the planet, had your room professionally built for your music, and upgrade the equipment/room every time an advancement occurs, then you have compromised your music. Actually, unless you bring live music into your home, you are compromising your music regardless of the equipment you have since no system can reproduce live music perfectly.

Well, you've stated the obvious. But the fact is that the reason that in-walls get little discussion here is that most folks here (maybe we need a poll) think they are a compromise they prefer to avoid. And I'm one of them (unless it's for background music, and frankly I don't like background music, I prefer to sit down and listen to it...probably a generational thing). Just stating preferences and answering the oriiginal question. To each his own.

 

Quote:

Originally posted by chirpie So do you think less of me since I put inwalls in my bar area? ;-)

No, the perfect place for inwalls. Heck, when you and your friends have had a few, I don't think you're concentrating on the soundstage.

 

Maybe there should be a seperate in-wall forum. A lot of people do not have the money or the know-how(or desire for that matter) to select top rated speakers and room components just to get a sound that is 10% better. A lot of newer HT people(like myself) are into asthetics and performance equally. How many of you would buy a speaker that gave 10% better sound but looked like it was made of cardboard? This is the reason Digital projectors have taken over CRT PJs(I'm still into CRTs...for the record). Digitals are 1/4 the size and weight of CRTs and give about that same ratio of picture quality. I, for one, would like an HT that is pleasing to the eye as well as the ears.

 

Quote:

Originally posted by pappy999 Maybe there should be a seperate in-wall forum. A lot of people do not have the money or the know-how(or desire for that matter) to select top rated speakers and room components just to get a sound that is 10% better.

In-walls of comparable quality to freestanding speakers will typically cost a lot more.

 

In wall speakers dominate our custom installation business. I will reiterate that they cost more than bookshelf speakers with the same performance. Boston Acoustics CR 75 bookshelves are $150 each; whereas the DSI460 inwall with the exact same components and crossover are $225ea. Of course the bookshelf has a sound quality advantage as it has a critically designed cabinet. The inwall is open on the back.

That said I have installed several systems using inwalls that sound great! As usual the acoustics of the room playing a predominant role in the results. Probably the weakest part of an inwalls sound quality is imaging. Flush with a wall surface is not conducive to a spacious soundstage.

I have never had a complaint about the sound of the BA inwall speakers. It is almost always beyond our clientele's expectations.

Aesthetic concerns win over functionality in our business every day of the week!

 

Quote:

Originally posted by tonygeno No, the perfect place for inwalls. Heck, when you and your friends have had a few, I don't think you're concentrating on the soundstage.

I can see it


... "Ish it jest me... or are thur two saundstages nnnnnnow?"

 

Quote:

Originally posted by Paul Scarpelli By the way, Triad InWalls, OnWalls, and InCeiling speakers are identical to their InRoom counterparts, using the same rigid enclosures with the same internal volume, and the same drivers, with crossovers modified for custom placement. The cost is usually 10% more than our In Room speakers.

Paul I understand what you are saying about changing the crossover but even with identical drivers how can a speaker mounted flush with a wall sound as good as one with a properly designed box that is placed properly out in the room away from the room boundries ?


I have yet to hear a single example of in-wall speakers that performs even as well as an entry level speaker such as the Vandy 2Ce that is correctly placed out in the room.