[Vicent]

We should start a thread about calibrating the new Apple displays. Apple insists on only two very expensive spectros. It’s crazy!

Usually by design CIE xy primaries are in place in those displays, because Apple (or its subsidiries) defined the LED PFS variant/flavor to have exactly P3 primaries so macOS can oversimplify color management.
Also (usually) by good quality control (QC) you can take almost for granted that grayscale has no color compared to its white. TRC ("gamma") usually is what apple intened too.
With those ingredients you can "predict" display behavior if you know actual white balance (whitepoint). And that is what Apple does on its XDR screens. In macOS configuration you go to tune whitepoint, provide an actual measurement (with ArgyllCMS or whatever you want) and with this info and the other "device info" I talked about you can predict display behavior to some extent like in any other well behaved IPS display ("matrix ICC profile").
Since you can predict its behavior (although a little over idealized, like in a ICC matrix profile) ... you can compute a RGB value combination (an RGB color in actual display colorspace) to whatever whitepoint coords you want. So you do not "calibrate" XDR displays in the usual way, at least on 1st try: you provide macOS with the missing ingredient (actual whitepoint coordinates) and let macOS auto calibrate display to your desired white (D65,...) . That's all. Then you can/should validate results.

Of course this only works with displays that have a 3d color volume "close" to ideal RGB aditive display ("closeness" may rise an argument here) ... but to some extent these XDR displays do.

 

[bobkatz]

Thanks for that advice, Vicent. I'll see what I can figure out. I'm sorry, we're hijacking this thread, and the hijack continues: You wrote that this is an i1d3 feature. Does that feature of auto correct "without measure" work in Calman, HCFR, Colourspace and DisplayCal? I'm just getting started so I have zero experience in using a spectro at this moment. And here is the spectro I bought off of ebay: X-rite GretagMacBeth "i1" 36.72.45 iOne Pro Rev"A" Spectrophotometer w/ 2 Lic's. So it's REv A. I figured it would be workable. Did I make a bad buy?

 

[oldmanavsforum]

EDITED POST. I found my firmware version and revised my questions:

Thanks very much for your prompt replies, oldmanavsforum and Vincent! You bring up good points! I have some followup questions:

Calman tells me:
Version 1104
Device: i1-11-A-01.102470.04
Calibration tables: 6

This means, according to displaycalibrations.com (thanks guys!!!):

Retail version. Manufactured 2011 (very old in my mind). Hardware revision A (according to oldmanavsforum, this has the best low light performance and I can confirm that from practical use. Firmware version 01. I think this means it's certified to 1000 nits???

2) I have dropped (gently I hope) my meter a few times over the years, that's why I'm concerned. But as you say, I have hardware revision A. I guess that settles it, I should stick with this meter, but I am a bit concerned about its calibration. I have to see if I can borrow or rent a Spectro.

4) If I go down the rabbit hole of calibrating with a Spectro, can I take the data that I get from Calman's meter profiling and apply it to other software?

I think it's 1,000 nits, yes. Good luck down your spectro rabbit hole! 🕳

 

[oldmanavsforum]

Not to doubt you, Vicent, but I've seen conflicting reports: 1) One of them was a Youtube profiler measuring the latest Macbook Pro (which I have, with Apple's new XDR display) with Calman Patterns for mac, and his conclusion was that G-B LED setting was the best compromise in the absence of a distinct miniLED profile. 2) The other claim is by Apple themselves, that the mini led technology in their "Liquid Retina XDR" displays is new, distinctly different from previous Apple P3 displays that I believe you are referring to. I can't speak to the phosphor technology used but I do believe the backlighting is different in the new XDR displays. MiniLED is certainly a lot better than full display local dimming

Regardless of who is correct, it makes sense to me to get a Spectro, and profile my i1 Display meter as specifically as possible for each display technology, in fact for each screen that I intend to calibrate!



I love it when you talk dirty . I understood most but not all of your abbreviations. You described a potential error of wavelength when calibrating with a reference meter that's an XRite i1 Pro Spectro, the meter I'm likely to get, and the meter being profiled is an i1 Display Pro.

So, my takeaway from your lesson is: it looks like there's a subtle wavelength-related error that's out of our control, but it still pays to profile a colorimeter with a Spectrophotomer. Agreed?

If you can afford it, maybe. I'm not sure how perceptible the difference will be

 

[oldmanavsforum]

We should start a thread about calibrating the new Apple displays. Apple insists on only two very expensive spectros. It’s crazy!

It's easy to insist others buy very-expensive equipment to make your equipment look good

 

[Vicent]

Thanks for that advice, Vicent. I'll see what I can figure out. I'm sorry, we're hijacking this thread, and the hijack continues: You wrote that this is an i1d3 feature. Does that feature of auto correct "without measure" work in Calman, HCFR, Colourspace and DisplayCal?

All calibration tools that support i1d3 (excluding Chromapure maybe, not sure), use this feature. I explained earlier: EDR/CCSS/CSV prebuilt spectral corrections.
HCFR/ArgyllCMS/DIsplayCAL can create them (use & create new ones) in CCSS format. Not 100% sure but Light Illusion tools can create them too in CSV format. AFAIK Calman cannot create them.

I'm just getting started so I have zero experience in using a spectro at this moment. And here is the spectro I bought off of ebay: X-rite GretagMacBeth "i1" 36.72.45 iOne Pro Rev"A" Spectrophotometer w/ 2 Lic's. So it's REv A. I figured it would be workable. Did I make a bad buy?

IDNK. Test it with i1Diagnostics and its ceramic tile and/or test with a known spectral power distribution or in reflective mode with a (not damaged or aged) colorchecker. Buying 2nd hand without requesting tests gives you those uncertainties.

 

[bobkatz]

Hi all! @Vicent
Well I'm back. I'm definitely going to need help figuring out if I should keep or return the The X-Rite GregtagMacbeth Rev. A I bought used from Ebay. It looks very clean, by the way. First thing I want to know is "did it calibrate" (with the white tile) in the integrated base.

I had some trouble installing the driver from the disk supplied (too old I suppose). But online, After downloading and installing i1Profiler from the XRite site, I got a driver installed (as seen in Device manager). I'm hoping it's not too new for this older unit. Device Manager reports it as an 'i1 One Pro". Success, I think!

i1 profiler appears to be "too new". It appears only to support the i1 Pro 2 and the i1 Pro 3. It cannot find a device. But to be honest, I'm not interested in i1 Profiler. I want to profile my Sony OLED with Calman if possible because of the DDC and Calman is far more sophisticated than i1Profiler. I know that Colourspace has a DDC, but the feedback I've seen in AVS forums is it's not really a device control yet, it's just to load and store settings from the Sony.

i1Diagnostics finds the meter and does a successful emission test. I did not test it with a monitor yet, but functionally, looks like this spectro is working. Maybe if I can borrow or rent a known new spectro.... otherwise I have no idea if this spectro is accurate, right?

Here's the behavior in Calman home: It sees the meter as an i1 Pro. "Initialize meter" goes through its thing but doesn't give any feedback other than "please wait while your meter is calibrated" with a progress bar. But no feedback like "successful calibration" after the progress bar is done. Does not inspire my confidence. Did it calibrate? If it did calibrate, I can (more or less) figure the workflow required to create a meter profile based on Spectro readings.

Next, trying Colourspace ZRO. My god, what a learning curve! I know next to nothing yet about this software, but I did figure out how to get to the profile page. It successfully connects with the meter and it calibrates!. So, if I ever learn colourspace it looks like it's talking to the i1 Pro and I could use it except for the lack of detailed DDC. I really don't want to use the Sony IR remote to avoid messing up meter readings.

Next, HCFR. Which is quite complex, but to my mind I can relate to it a little easier than I can to Colourspace at this point in my learning curve. HCFR can find the i1 Display pro but unfortunately it can't find the spectro.

Next, Display Cal. I'm not sure To be honest, if it can find Rpi. It can't find the spectro but it can find the i1 Display pro.

Assuming that my spectro is good performing, I'm left with Calman (if it actually did calibrate) and Colourspace ZRO. TBH, my preference is Calman because I have a working DDC to my Sony.

Appreciate any thoughts from meter experts here. Thanks.

 

[titleexaminer92]

Next, trying Colourspace ZRO. My god, what a learning curve! I know next to nothing yet about this software, but I did figure out how to get to the profile page. It successfully connects with the meter and it calibrates!. So, if I ever learn colourspace it looks like it's talking to the i1 Pro and I could use it except for the lack of detailed DDC. I really don't want to use the Sony IR remote to avoid messing up meter readings.

Also an A80J owner and ColourSpace user.

There is a Sony Bravia Template for Device Control which can control Sony's displays settings without going in the OSD. Also allows me to save the settings for re-upload should I feel the need.

Sony calibration overview for enthusiasts

Overview Preface This thread is meant to provide an overview and discussion for Sony flat panel TV calibration. While there’s a thread focused on the Calman for Sony workflow, and other model specific owners’ threads, much of the general information on calibrating consumer Sony displays is...

www.avsforum.com

I use the Bravia template for my HDR10 picture mode (Custom 2 / Expert 2) since I calibrate SDR with Brightness MAX and Peak Luminance High, as I find this translates to better RGB Balance once HDR10 processing is enabled.

I also use the Bravia Template for my DoVi Dark calibration with Warm Color Temp when in DV Calibrate mode (see link in signature), and for DoVi Dark CMS.

 

[bobkatz]

Also an A80J owner and ColourSpace user.

There is a Sony Bravia Template for Device Control which can control Sony's displays settings without going in the OSD. Also allows me to save the settings for re-upload should I feel the need.

Sony calibration overview for enthusiasts

Overview Preface This thread is meant to provide an overview and discussion for Sony flat panel TV calibration. While there’s a thread focused on the Calman for Sony workflow, and other model specific owners’ threads, much of the general information on calibrating consumer Sony displays is...

www.avsforum.com

I use the Bravia template for my HDR10 picture mode (Custom 2 / Expert 2) since I calibrate SDR with Brightness MAX and Peak Luminance High, as I find this translates to better RGB Balance once HDR10 processing is enabled.

I also use the Bravia Template for my DoVi Dark calibration with Warm Color Temp when in DV Calibrate mode (see link in signature), and for DoVi Dark CMS.

Thanks. I heard there is a device control template in Colourspace, but did not realize it is so well-featured.

 

[Vicent]

Hi all! @Vicent
Well I'm back. I'm definitely going to need help figuring out if I should keep or return the The X-Rite GregtagMacbeth Rev. A I bought used from Ebay. It looks very clean, by the way. First thing I want to know is "did it calibrate" (with the white tile) in the integrated base.

To use with Argyll you'll need to add Argyll driver

http://displaycal.net/Argyll/Argyll_V3.0.0_USB_driver_installer.exe.zip

http://displaycal.net/Argyll/Argyll_V2.3.1_USB_driver_installer.exe.zip

And you need to switch back manually in device manager from one driver to another depending on the software going to use. Read argyllCMS doc:

https://www.argyllcms.com/doc/Installing_MSWindows.html#WIN8

I had some trouble installing the driver from the disk supplied (too old I suppose). But online, After downloading and installing i1Profiler from the XRite site, I got a driver installed (as seen in Device manager). I'm hoping it's not too new for this older unit. Device Manager reports it as an 'i1 One Pro". Success, I think!

i1 profiler appears to be "too new". It appears only to support the i1 Pro 2 and the i1 Pro 3. It cannot find a device. But to be honest, I'm not interested in i1 Profiler. I want to profile my Sony OLED with Calman if possible because of the DDC and Calman is far more sophisticated than i1Profiler. I know that Colourspace has a DDC, but the feedback I've seen in AVS forums is it's not really a device control yet, it's just to load and store settings from the Sony.

You'll need older i1Profiler. v1.8.3 will work for sure but maybe you can update till v3.1.1.

Try searching online if Xrite deleted older versions.
MD5
f548ccbbbd9c294f6b601602f09cc278 *i1ProfilerSetup_1.8.3.exe
7eac280b50c5a431cbdd31c0419453af *i1ProfilerSetup_3.1.1.exe
SHA1
6dbb5917a5f909fa3afe3f12e678386fea3a3101 *i1ProfilerSetup_1.8.3.exe
58aeb4ea04cd924c52e26dc1c318fd58c8a76f68 *i1ProfilerSetup_3.1.1.exe
i1Profiler is/was free to download but if Xrite decided to delete old version I won't post links, it's their IP.

i1Diagnostics finds the meter and does a successful emission test. I did not test it with a monitor yet, but functionally, looks like this spectro is working. Maybe if I can borrow or rent a known new spectro.... otherwise I have no idea if this spectro is accurate, right?

Seems ok, use it for creating your CCSS

Here's the behavior in Calman home: It sees the meter as an i1 Pro. "Initialize meter" goes through its thing but doesn't give any feedback other than "please wait while your meter is calibrated" with a progress bar. But no feedback like "successful calibration" after the progress bar is done. Does not inspire my confidence. Did it calibrate? If it did calibrate, I can (more or less) figure the workflow required to create a meter profile based on Spectro readings.

Did it change to a blue circle with a minute counting down? When you initialize the meter it changes to that next to meter name but IDNK if Calman HOme i different.

Next, HCFR. Which is quite complex, but to my mind I can relate to it a little easier than I can to Colourspace at this point in my learning curve. HCFR can find the i1 Display pro but unfortunately it can't find the spectro.

Next, Display Cal. I'm not sure To be honest, if it can find Rpi. It can't find the spectro but it can find the i1 Display pro.

Read first quote.

 

[bobkatz]

To use with Argyll you'll need to add Argyll driver

http://displaycal.net/Argyll/Argyll_V3.0.0_USB_driver_installer.exe.zip

http://displaycal.net/Argyll/Argyll_V2.3.1_USB_driver_installer.exe.zip

And you need to switch back manually in device manager from one driver to another depending on the software going to use. Read argyllCMS doc:

https://www.argyllcms.com/doc/Installing_MSWindows.html#WIN8

You'll need older i1Profiler. v1.8.3 will work for sure but maybe you can update till v3.1.1.

Try searching online if Xrite deleted older versions.
MD5
f548ccbbbd9c294f6b601602f09cc278 *i1ProfilerSetup_1.8.3.exe
7eac280b50c5a431cbdd31c0419453af *i1ProfilerSetup_3.1.1.exe
SHA1
6dbb5917a5f909fa3afe3f12e678386fea3a3101 *i1ProfilerSetup_1.8.3.exe
58aeb4ea04cd924c52e26dc1c318fd58c8a76f68 *i1ProfilerSetup_3.1.1.exe
i1Profiler is/was free to download but if Xrite decided to delete old version I won't post links, it's their IP.


Seems ok, use it for creating your CCSS


Did it change to a blue circle with a minute counting down? When you initialize the meter it changes to that next to meter name but IDNK if Calman HOme i different.


Read first quote.

Vicent: Thank you so much. You are a fountain of fantastic information! Yes, in the corner of the meter name Calman changed to a blue circle that's counting down. I wasn't aware until you told me. A little googling tells me that this is a countdown for how long the calibration is valid. Maybe about 10 minutes and then it turns red. I guess that means "recalibrate". Not very nice is that? But if all I'm doing is using the spectro to profile a colorimeter I guess I can live with that.

 

[bobkatz]

My first meter profile worked perfectly, according to Calman. Not having moved the target meter from its position I can report the validation step only showed 0.0001 x error and 0.0002 y error! I'll take that as perfect validation.

But here's a "bug" I found: I'll also report this "bug" on the Rpi/Ted's disc thread: When profiling my i1d3 in Calman home, I tried to use Ted's meter positioning cross to position the reference meter and the target meter in the same location. That means: Go to Ted's disc, turn on cross, position reference meter. Go to Calman, Take reference meter reading. Go to Ted's disc, turn on cross, position target meter. Go to Calman, Take target meter reading. Each time I try this, on the target meter, right after it looks at the initial, white pattern, Calman throws up an error in the i1d3 reading. I suspect Calman was losing synchronization with the pattern generator. So after a few times repeating this process and each time getting the same error, I skipped the Ted Cross step and Calman worked perfectly. Of course now I've got to guesstimate the exact position of the meter, best I can. It's not a terrible thing, but if we're looking for precision, you know the deal. Could someone with Calman and Rpi and Ted's disc please test this functionality and let us know if this is a repeatable bug, not just isolated to my system. Thanks.

 

[bobkatz]

(If there is a more appropriate thread, please let me know and I'll delete this post)

My new i1 Pro Rev. A spectro seems to be working well. I was never able to find a manual for the device this old, though I have manuals for its successors. In the manual, for periodic cleaning of the lens, there is an instruction for removing the limiting aperture. But this does not turn on my unit although there are two position indicators on a paper label showing that it must turn. The limiting aperture is possibly stuck. Is there a special tool to remove the limiting aperture (as seems to be pictured in the manual)?

My second question has to do with where Calman stores its meter profiles. I searched on the C: drive for a file with the name of the profile and it doesn't show.

 

[Rolls-Royce]

(If there is a more appropriate thread, please let me know and I'll delete this post)

My new i1 Pro Rev. A spectro seems to be working well. I was never able to find a manual for the device this old, though I have manuals for its successors. In the manual, for periodic cleaning of the lens, there is an instruction for removing the limiting aperture. But this does not turn on my unit although there are two position indicators on a paper label showing that it must turn. The limiting aperture is possibly stuck. Is there a special tool to remove the limiting aperture (as seems to be pictured in the manual)?

My second question has to do with where Calman stores its meter profiles. I searched on the C: drive for a file with the name of the profile and it doesn't show.

Those Rev A lenses can be a real bear to get off.

CalMAN stores all of its meter profiles for a particular meter together in a single encrypted file under that meter's serial number. You will not find a profile by its title except within CalMAN itself.

 

[bobkatz]

Those Rev A lenses can be a real bear to get off.

CalMAN stores all of its meter profiles for a particular meter together in a single encrypted file under that meter's serial number. You will not find a profile by its title except within CalMAN itself.

Thanks, @Rolls-Royce. Yeah, that's what I'm finding. It the cover seems to be stuck. If I don't handle trying to turn it well, the i1 could go flying out of my hands and that would be the end of it. :-( Fortunately, it looks very clean, all I can hope for is "long life in a non-dusty environment."

Sad to hear that about Calman's meter profiles. Thank you for the information. I thought I was going crazy, looking for the file.

 

[Rolls-Royce]

Thanks, @Rolls-Royce. Yeah, that's what I'm finding. It the cover seems to be stuck. If I don't handle trying to turn it well, the i1 could go flying out of my hands and that would be the end of it. :-( Fortunately, it looks very clean, all I can hope for is "long life in a non-dusty environment."

Sad to hear that about Calman's meter profiles. Thank you for the information. I thought I was going crazy, looking for the file.

You mentioned not being able to find a manual for your Rev A. That meter is end-of-life at XRite and no support of any kind - including repairs - is offered by them. You can get downloads of older software, but documentation seems to be non-existent.

 

[oldmanavsforum]

You mentioned not being able to find a manual for your Rev A. That meter is end-of-life at XRite and no support of any kind - including repairs - is offered by them. You can get downloads of older software, but documentation seems to be non-existent.

X-rite i1Pro Manuals ?

 

[bobkatz]

X-rite i1Pro Manuals ?

If the manual says “pro” it’s not an i1 rev A. The very first unit was simply called “Eye One”.

 

[oldmanavsforum]

If the manual says “pro” it’s not an i1 rev A. The very first unit was simply called “Eye One”.

Can't find anything. It's supposed to be on the included CD. I'm assuming you don't have that?

 

[bobkatz]

Can't find anything. It's supposed to be on the included CD. I'm assuming you don't have that?

I looked and looked on the included CD but I could not find the original manual. The CD is labeled "iOne, iOne Pro, iOne Pro2" Series, and maybe the original manual is hidden on there somewhere, but I can't find it.