[D Andersson]

Anybody compared it to Onkyo 5010 and similar receivers? When it comes to sound quality, how does it perform? I will use it as a pre-amp, have a separate multi-channel power amp.

 

[SoundofMind]



Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex  /t/1430049/the-official-denon-avr-4520ci-thread/1650#post_22701856


I understand it's the same side surround signal....but aren't there separate amps driving both A and B speakers as shown in the layout?

If so, then they should be able to have separate trim to balance the level, or am I thinking too much into this?

I could NOT find the diagram in my 4520CI manual, so maybe it's a moot point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig  /t/1430049/the-official-denon-avr-4520ci-thread/1650#post_22701681


The A/B switching for surround speakers is a thing of the past. I believe it lasted through the 4310, but with the advent of DSX and all those others fancy things you can do with extra features, it's gone the way of the dodo.

The original intended purpose was to allow you to have a pair of monopole surrounds for multichannel 5.1 music, and then seamlessly switch to a separate pair of dipole surrounds for movies. Although you could use it to have two pairs of side surrounds for multiple rows, they wouldn't be pinged individually because they share the same amp channel... If you want two pairs of side surrounds, you could still do that by wiring them in series or by splitting the preout signal to two channels on an external amp. But it's still only one CHANNEL of content per side, so you wouldn't get independent calibration or content.

Exactly right as usual Sir batpig. I had the 4310 for awhile and it had DSX wides, heights and Surr B as options. But it had no XT32, so it wasn't long before it was replaced by a 4311.


Interestingly, the AVPA1 XT32/3D upgrade eliminated Surr B causing some gnashing of teeth amongst the Denon flagship owners.


Mike, personally I never felt the need to install Surr Bs. Dali surrounds are all monopole. I've placed them at 110 degrees and less than 1' over my head pointed at MLP. All optimized for MC music. Despite all that, and no surr backs, with Audyssey DSX wides movies sounded pretty darn good to me. Now with XT32 and Pro, the surround bubble is even better- more detailed, smooth and seamless.

 

[SoundofMind]



Quote:
Originally Posted by con219  /t/1430049/the-official-denon-avr-4520ci-thread/1680#post_22701979


Having owned the 4311 I recall the regrets I had when I had so many issues with it eg "blue rain " just to mention. The 4520 on the otherhand has been relative trouble free. Aesthetically it looks the part ie reminds me of my much loved 4308. The 4311 just looked cheap especially the hardware at the rear ie much like the 3808

Ah, but the A100 Anniv Edition has upgraded Gold speaker posts. Those, the cast iron feet and the Anniv badge on the front lend a certain air of class. Of course, it's kinda hard to tell with it sitting behind smoked glass .

On a more serious note, AFAIK other than that early FW-fixed Rain issue, the 4311 has been very reliable. The 4310, OTOH, required a NIC replacement in the shop.

 

[tkroeker]



Quote:
Originally Posted by D Andersson  /t/1430049/the-official-denon-avr-4520ci-thread/1680_70#post_22702448


Anybody compared it to Onkyo 5010 and similar receivers? When it comes to sound quality, how does it perform? I will use it as a pre-amp, have a separate multi-channel power amp.

Yes, JoeRod did a good comparison at the end of his 4520 review. It can seen here : http://hstrial-jrodriguez996.homestead.com/DENON-AVR-4520CI-RECEIVER-REVIEW.html?_=1353372722253


Tim

 

[COACH2369]



Quote:
Originally Posted by D Andersson  /t/1430049/the-official-denon-avr-4520ci-thread/1680#post_22702448


Anybody compared it to Onkyo 5010 and similar receivers? When it comes to sound quality, how does it perform? I will use it as a pre-amp, have a separate multi-channel power amp.

I jumped from the Onkyo 5508 Pre/Pro and have been very impressed with how the 4520 performs as just a pre-amp. The unit had a Pro calibration done on it and the results were better than what I got with the 5508. Overall, I am happy with the performance of it.

 

[a1usedcomp]

My rack in the picture below has a clearence of 9" and 1" more above but there is 1" support brackets My question is my 4520 is 7.5" high is this going to be an issue ?


Here is the rack http://www.vtimanufacturing.com/BL%20503SSC.htm

 

[mastermaybe]

Hola...looks wide-open to me, should ventilate plenty well.


Nice rack by the way.


James

 

[a1usedcomp]



Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe  /t/1430049/the-official-denon-avr-4520ci-thread/1680#post_22703157


Hola...looks wide-open to me, should ventilate plenty well.

Nice rack by the way.

James

I will give it a try and keep an eye on the temp , It will be a pre amp only next week but I need to pick up some new cables



" Nice rack by the way " I dont know how to take that

Added a fan in pull mode

 

[mtbdudex]



Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind  /t/1430049/the-official-denon-avr-4520ci-thread/1680#post_22702474

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex  /t/1430049/the-official-denon-avr-4520ci-thread/1650#post_22701856


I understand it's the same side surround signal....but aren't there separate amps driving both A and B speakers as shown in the layout?

If so, then they should be able to have separate trim to balance the level, or am I thinking too much into this?

I could NOT find the diagram in my 4520CI manual, so maybe it's a moot point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig  /t/1430049/the-official-denon-avr-4520ci-thread/1650#post_22701681


The A/B switching for surround speakers is a thing of the past. I believe it lasted through the 4310, but with the advent of DSX and all those others fancy things you can do with extra features, it's gone the way of the dodo.

The original intended purpose was to allow you to have a pair of monopole surrounds for multichannel 5.1 music, and then seamlessly switch to a separate pair of dipole surrounds for movies. Although you could use it to have two pairs of side surrounds for multiple rows, they wouldn't be pinged individually because they share the same amp channel... If you want two pairs of side surrounds, you could still do that by wiring them in series or by splitting the preout signal to two channels on an external amp. But it's still only one CHANNEL of content per side, so you wouldn't get independent calibration or content.

Exactly right as usual Sir batpig. I had the 4310 for awhile and it had DSX wides, heights and Surr B as options. But it had no XT32, so it wasn't long before it was replaced by a 4311.


Interestingly, the AVPA1 XT32/3D upgrade eliminated Surr B causing some gnashing of teeth amongst the Denon flagship owners.


Mike, personally I never felt the need to install Surr Bs. Dali surrounds are all monopole. I've placed them at 110 degrees and less than 1' over my head pointed at MLP. All optimized for MC music. Despite all that, and no surr backs, with Audyssey DSX wides movies sounded pretty darn good to me. Now with XT32 and Pro, the surround bubble is even better- more detailed, smooth and seamless.

Rich;

Once I get my wide/heights installed and acoustics re-done it will be nice to have you over and help me with the 4520CI Pro Calibration.

I look forward to picking your brain and learning from you.


batpig - thx for response also, I see now the 4308 does not have seperate amps for driving both A and B speakers, this image show the connections for that.

Up to the user to not overload the combined resistance, it shows 16ohms for A + B when combined...

The below is from 4308CI manual.

 

[rav7ks]

With the fan you should be fine. I have about an inch and run a dual fan blowing over the top of the receiver and it stays cool the entire time it's on.

 

[a1usedcomp]

Im pulling with this fan not blowing , Im sure once I get my cables and use the 4520 as a preamp only I will be fine might not even need a fan

 

[batpig]

honestly, even though there is limited clearance up top, that stand is so wide open that I doubt you will have any issues.

 

[setanta]



Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig  /t/1430049/the-official-denon-avr-4520ci-thread/1650#post_22701758


Just FYI on Airplay and Zone 2 -- I've been tinkering a bit this evening and I can confirm the initial "hijack" of main zone when the Airplay stream starts. As mentioned before, once you power on zone 2 you can then switch main zone to a different source. I also confirmed my initial finding that the Airplay volume is still "linked" to main zone even when Airplay is only playing in zone 2!

What I couldn't do however is play Airplay to zone 2 without main zone being powered on! When I would power off main zone with Airplay going, it would stop in zone 2. When I tried to reinitiate the Airplay stream, main zone popped back on. So if you want to use internal Airplay to another zone without making noise in main zone, you have to switch main zone to a "dead" input or just turn the volume down all the way in main zone.

I did confirm though that it's no issue starting a different network source in zone 2, with or without main zone powered on. I was able to use the Denon app in my iPad to start Pandora or Internet radio playing in zone 2 without any problem, without affecting main zone.

Batpig, thx so much for confirming the behavior. The leave main zone on and switch to dead zone is a total hack but of course could be made to work. My first order of business is to see if I can get the 4311 functioning again. If so I'll stick with ATV. If however it's broken I have to seriously consider if I can stomach another flawed Denon feature for the next few years. I'm also loath to buy into version 1.oh-oh of 4K video and would have much preferred to wait a year or two before upgrading from an otherwise serviceable 4311.


Would you be able to confirm whether the net streaming behavior for Pandora and Internet radio also works correctly for DNLA media stream. I imagine it would but I'd prefer to know for sure. Under this scenario I could use the Media server and Songbird instead of iTunes but the remote operation of Songbird is a iPhone only app. If they had an iPad version it would be much better that Apple's remote app anyway.


thx again for you assistance it's much appreciated by me and countless others on this board.

 

[setanta]



Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry  /t/1430049/the-official-denon-avr-4520ci-thread/1650#post_22701620


I could be wrong, but I don't think I have ever seen any evidence of Denon's direct participation in any of the Denon product threads I subscribe to.  The way to provide feedback to Denon is through their technical support.  If we don't report the issues, we can't expect any action.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex  /t/1430049/the-official-denon-avr-4520ci-thread/1650#post_22701682


" DenonJeff " back in the day used to be here all the time, till 2008?

Then he stopped answering Q's here, and in my memory left Denon 2009?

Yea, I think Denon Jeff bailed before he suffered the wrath of frustrated AirPlay users

In this day and age if product management is not monitoring what is being said online about their products and brand in general they are asleep at the wheel. I have very little faith in providing product feedback through tech support. If that was the case two years ago when I gave very detailed feedback on how AirPlay should be implemented they wouldn't have botched it again so horribly this time around.


Who knows maybe it's intentional. They sucker us into upgrading to go from a 90% solution to a 95% solution knowing full well they could just deliver the 100% solution the first time around but kill sales down the road. Or maybe it's because they do hardware well but don't really understand software.

 

[Mark1000]



Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry  /t/1430049/the-official-denon-avr-4520ci-thread/1650#post_22701760


Using Direct also turns off Audyssey. The approach in the 4311 was a "2Ch Direct/Stereo" menu which allowed the tailoring of speaker size, crossover, trims, distances, and subwoofer mode independent of the normal Multi-channel settings. These settings would leave the Audyssey settings untouched. In other words, it was a much finer control of two-channel playback.

It is still possible to set some of these through the web interface. Small/Large, Sub mode and distances, not volumes. I have no sub now (in repair) to test again, but it worked previously. So maybe it is still a option but not (yet) implemented through the on screen menu.

 

[sdrucker]



Quote:
Originally Posted by setanta  /t/1430049/the-official-denon-avr-4520ci-thread/1680#post_22703844


Yea, I think Denon Jeff bailed before he suffered the wrath of frustrated AirPlay users

In this day and age if product management is not monitoring what is being said online about their products and brand in general they are asleep at the wheel. I have very little faith in providing product feedback through tech support. If that was the case two years ago when I gave very detailed feedback on how AirPlay should be implemented they wouldn't have botched it again so horribly this time around.

Who knows maybe it's intentional. They sucker us into upgrading to go from a 90% solution to a 95% solution knowing full well they could just deliver the 100% solution the first time around but kill sales down the road. Or maybe it's because they do hardware well but don't really understand software.

It's beating a dead horse, but as other have said, they're in the business of selling big hunks of metal, rather than software/license maintenance (although if I were in the A/V business, I'd think hard about building a yearly subscription model). Having surround and room correction modes on dedicated DSPs, vs. an OS with apps to support with periodic upgrades, fits that paradigm. Even having firmware updates is a relatively recent development for Denon, Pioneer, Onkyo etc. Denon just happens to have the best tradeoff of "useful' features, room correction software, and reliability relative to the competition, for which I'm glad, but it's the lesser of several evils from a long-term POV. But at least we've got one of the better after-market supports on this forum for the product. Still, if Oppo ever developed a pre-pro with Trinnov, I'd leap at it.


If you want to hear real whining, read some of the rants on the SC-57 thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1352164/the-official-pioneer-elite-sc-55-sc-57-owners-thread/3630


(although it's good to see ss9001 back in form, and telling it like it is to someone stating their willingness to sue Pioneer over not supporting their iControlAV eight months after the AVR that it controlled was released)

 

[ss9001]

^^


lol

yup...

stu, yours is one of the few adult posts I've recently read on this topic. sure don't see many adult posts like yours in Pioneer threads, just the complaining.


I tried to explain the concept of contacting the key person at Pioneer US, letting him know they are willing to pay an annual fee if Pioneer kept the apps updated, but it fell on dead ears. I think they genuinely feel they are entitled.


Nearly all Pioneer threads are a whole lot less informative or interesting than they used to be...mostly it's hand-holding people who don't read the manual

or jump to erroneous conclusions. I like to come here for a refreshing change where some intelligent discussion takes place

edit - stu, I'm glad you kept my original post in your reply before I cut it down. I just didn't want this to devolve into an OT, so I edited this post but thanks.

 

[sdrucker]



Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001  /t/1430049/the-official-denon-avr-4520ci-thread/1680#post_22704142


^^

lol

yup...

stu, yours is one of the few adult posts I've recently read on this topic. sure don't see many "adult" posts like yours in Pioneer threads, just a lot of complaining!

I tried to explain the concept to those angry Pioneer posters that maybe the company might become interested in their app upgrades if owners made it clear to the company they were willing to pay for it, say an annual fee similar to how mainstream software works.

Of course, that fell on deaf ears since not one of the complainers thought that was reasonable or was willing to get off their ass & contact Pioneer about the idea. they just feel they are entitled to free software updates, period. when confronted with the fact that no matter how many years a company would agree to provide free upgrades, some owners would want it to be longer, so it's a one-sided losing proposition for the company - they can't win no matter what they did. Nearly all Pioneer threads are a whole lot less informative than they used to be...mostly it's hand-holding people who don't read the manual

I like to come here for a refreshing change where some intelligent discussion takes place

an annual subscription fee is a reasonable way for the companies to make it happen, if they can change their concept of what the product is, metal box or capabilities. Heck, to a lesser extent, I can see hardware upgrades done the same way. Put a price on it and watch how seriously those owners are about their phone apps

Well, I stopped reading Pio threads except for what you and Chris say, since most of the rest isn't relevant anymore (from the POV of the Dark Side LOL), or not that interesting as purely technical newbie learning curve stuff....i.e. the hand-holding. It's neccessary, and I'm glad that you (and even Purdyd) are doing it, but it's a labor of love. It doesn't have that back and forth of informed opinions that you (mostly) get on, say, an Oppo, Denon, or Panny Plasma thread. In fact, lately I'm finding that I'm making purchase decisions based on the quality of posts for the products I'm considering. If we @ AVS or HDJ are effectively the 'aftermarket' tech support for one another, that matters.


Sorry, but extended software updates are not a requirement of a product warranty. Only a fool doesn't think so...hence the more we push company tech support, or try to build virtual relationships with a Walkamo or a nameless guy from Panasonic on HDJ, the better...but as consumers, it's up to us. Still, if MS is moving in to the subscription model for future office productivity software, IMO it's inevitable that a smarter CE manufacturer will try the same idea. Especially as product 'updates' become more 'nice to have' than essential, in a slowish economy (and with crappy, relatively cheap options like iDevices to steal market share).


Hell, we _should_ push Pioneer, Denon etc. to a pay for update model - or at least an open source approach to apps that they'll license or get royalties from on an iTunes.


I'm not _that_ original, but I'd like to think I do a good job of distilling the issues/rants with what I've learned into something readable...just some of my thinking, anyway, virtually speaking.

 

[ss9001]



Quote:
Originally Posted by setanta  /t/1430049/the-official-denon-avr-4520ci-thread/1600_100#post_22703844


They sucker us into upgrading to go from a 90% solution to a 95% solution knowing full well they could just deliver the 100% solution the first time around but kill sales down the road. Or maybe it's because they do hardware well but don't really understand software.

not to "beat the dead horse" more here, but doesn't Intel do this with CPU's & chipsets? nothing new here or unique to the AV industry. the whole PC hardware & software industry works the same way. the AV companies have caught on.

 

[ss9001]



Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker  /t/1430049/the-official-denon-avr-4520ci-thread/1600_100#post_22704212


it's a labor of love

yes but getting old

I'm ready for some folks to help me for a change

I'm in process of deciding on XTZ or Omnimic this month, am browsing both manuals (a novel idea

). I'm ready to take the room acoustics to next level, to see what I have in-depth & what to look for in trying to improve it. I'm willing to learn new things