Impressive equipment plan

 

 

With all of those speakers, is the Trinnov Audio Altitude 16 going to be enough? By this I mean, 3 fronts, 8 sides, 2 rears, 6 height/overheads and 4 subwoofers. By my count, that's 23 speakers, including the 4 subwoofers. I'm sure the end result will be unbelievably amazing. Good luck.

 

Maybe he intends to matrix or just copy some of the side surrounds but yes an Alt 16 for that setup is not ideal. Potentially a Storm 24 channel would be best value.

 

21' is a great width

 

I would move the seating towards the front 2'. The side surrounds back 3', the 2nd set of surrounds back 4'. Those over head speakers in the rear corners are unnecessary. The atmos speakers towards the center 2'. Bring the L&R fronts in above where the subs are. Move the front subs to the corners.

 

With all of those speakers, is the Trinnov Audio Altitude 16 going to be enough? By this I mean, 3 fronts, 8 sides, 2 rears, 6 height/overheads and 4 subwoofers. By my count, that's 23 speakers, including the 4 subwoofers. I'm sure the end result will be unbelievably amazing. Good luck.

I believe the QSC core does matrixing or some such magic to create extra channels.

I agree this will be amazing, and also agree I’d be tempted to pull the seating forward a tad (and maybe make a bit extra room between rows).

 

DSP
QSC Core 110F

What is the DSP function for the QSC above and beyond your Trinnov?

 

Wow! This looks like one very impressive home theater in the making! I enjoyed following your 1.0 theater build, so you can count me in on this one as well - subscribed! 😉

 

well the name is certainly apt!

@jedi1982 Why did you go with JTR's instead of ascendo's for the subs?

 

End Game and End Bank Account! Very nice!

 

+1 for move seats forward and space rows out a bit, such that people in the back row can get out without making others put their footrest down.

 

I would just get the ALT32, 36 channels and set for a very long time. Specially with waveforming out in a few months.

 

I would assume the Two point Zero will quickly become Two point Zero point One (2.0.1)

 

Not a DBA so not end game.

Close though.

 

Great dimensions wish we had that height. Looking forward to your finishing plans.

 

Sounds fantastic. Dimensions are perfect. I have width envy, lol

 

With all of those speakers, is the Trinnov Audio Altitude 16 going to be enough? By this I mean, 3 fronts, 8 sides, 2 rears, 6 height/overheads and 4 subwoofers. By my count, that's 23 speakers, including the 4 subwoofers. I'm sure the end result will be unbelievably amazing. Good luck.

Yes, will have 19 speakers then the subs will be tied to 1 channel, then further controlled/EQ'd with the Core 110F. Core 110F may potentially add a few more types of filters for LCR as well.

I would move the seating towards the front 2'. The side surrounds back 3', the 2nd set of surrounds back 4'. Those over head speakers in the rear corners are unnecessary. The atmos speakers towards the center 2'. Bring the L&R fronts in above where the subs are. Move the front subs to the corners.

The overall layout design is based on the best / recommended practice on the soon to be released Immersive Audio Design Recommended Practices document at CEDIA. From there, the draft image was from the acoustical analysis based on the new standards and positions of speakers which show the room modes by frequency and best outcome for each seat, all before any room treatment and calibration. Once treatment and calibration are taken into consideration, there will be some updates / changes

The room will be calibrated by Adam Pelz.

well the name is certainly apt!

@jedi1982 Why did you go with JTR's instead of ascendo's for the subs?

Quite simply budgetary reasons. Can't afford dual (or single) 32" with everything else planned + quad Ascendo 18's. I feel the value of the JTRs (six 18" powered by almost 13k watts) will bring the "end game" infrasonic and performance feel without taking on another mortgage

I would just get the ALT32, 36 channels and set for a very long time. Specially with waveforming out in a few months.

Waveforming was considered early on, but due to the substantial added cost to operationalize (is not just adding subwoofers, but is the actual placement / application in the room that matters) with additional construction elements and the need to use an Alt 32, could not justify the $$ considering the room will be fully treated / calibrated and will only on occasion be filling all 10 seats. Anyone watching / listening will have an amazing experience as-is!

 

Waveforming was considered early on, but due to the substantial added cost to operationalize (is not just adding subwoofers, but is the actual placement / application in the room that matters) with additional construction elements and the need to use an Alt 32, could not justify the $$ considering the room will be fully treated / calibrated and will only on occasion be filling all 10 seats. Anyone watching / listening will have an amazing experience as-is!

It may be more cost effective than you think. Check out the DBA sims of 2+2 placement. Practically the same as 4+4.

http://www.loudspeaker-research.de/Variants%20of%20the%20Double%20Bass%20Array.pdf

If you can DIY stands or enclosures to get the drivers to half height, that’s all you’d need.

 

@jedi1982 I have no doubt that this will be an amazing room, hope it gives you years of joy!

 

The overall layout design is based on the best / recommended practice on the soon to be released Immersive Audio Design Recommended Practices document at CEDIA.

They recommend surround channels in front of the first row of seating?

L and R in the front corners of the room?

Rear overhead channels duplicated into the rear corners of the room?

If so, methinks they've lost their marbles. Wides were meant to fill in the gap between the mains and surrounds, so in a 21' wide room, i would definitely pull the mains in a bit from the side walls and let the wides to do their job. Surrounds should always be behind the first row of seating, otherwise they would still technically be wides.

 

They recommend surround channels in front of the first row of seating?

L and R in the front corners of the room?

Rear overhead channels duplicated into the rear corners of the room?

Likely for stereo imaging to reduce the exit door effect of having a speaker too close to a listener. The ideal minimum distance from speaker to listener is 5’. Th me side walls look perhaps 4’ away from the outer positions.

Fixed channel content will stereo image on all rows producing a more natural sound. Object formats will have sound move more seamlessly for all listeners as well. Edge listeners won’t have a surround screaming in their or objects jumping from speaker to speaker.

LR in the corners isn’t nearly as big of a deal as people here make it out to be. Close distances reduce SBIR effects to the point they can be easily addressed with room treatments. Boundary gain is easily controlled with EQ. Ascendo speakers have even and controlled dispersion so they’re not going to wash the walls with reflected energy like other designs.

I’m assuming the duplicate rear tops in the corners are copy/paste and should be Ls2/Rs2.

Looks to be a very competent design. Assuming OP also goes with Quest’s acoustic treatments, my money is on a stellar end result.

 

If so, methinks they've lost their marbles. ..... Surrounds should always be behind the first row of seating, otherwise they would still technically be wides.

I can only speak to pre-atmos, but many people find you get better envelopment having them slightly forward of the seating position. The rooms I've been in that do this are much more satisfying in my opinion.

 

I will follow this thread with great interest!

I do not share @SteveCallas concerns about the design. To me, it seems very solid and well thought through. Back row seems a little close to the back wall (~4 feet) but knowing Quest, I am sure that design decision was done on an informed basis.

 

I'm with @SteveCallas on this one. I'd always have my side surrounds as close to directly to my side as possible not ever in front of my MLP. In your diagram, if LS1 / LS and RS1 / RS are actually driven by one channel of the processor, it may be ok. I dunno.

 

It might be useful for folks with concerns on the speaker placement to have a look at the Atmos installation guidelines. That doc is for home and not commercial systems. Specifically page 4 comparing a minimal (9 speaker channels) and maximal (34 speaker channels) configuration. Each speaker is on its own unique output channel for rendering.

 

Since @jedi1982 is using a Trinnov Altitude 16, the better reference would be the Trinnov Speaker Placement Layout.
And secondarily, Jon Herron of Trinnov wrote up for Kaleidescape an article in the June 2023 Trinnov news letter regarding Home Theater Speaker Placement Best Practices

As far as I can tell, the labeling on the Ls2/Rs2 speakers are incorrectly identified as Right Top Rear(Rtr) / Left Top Rear(Ltr) located on the walls in the rear of the room.

Additionally, based on the placement of Lrs/Rrs, those should actually be labeled as Lcs/Rcs, as they are located to the left/right of the furthest most rear seat, which is Inside the listening area. These would not stage very well with that assignment. Recommended to have them assigned as Lcs/Rcs for proper integration.

As far as using a QSC for further control speakers, in this case subs, IMHO, I would upgrade to a Altitude³² with 24 Ch,with (+4) capability, and assign all base layer/height/tops and subs through a single interface, levering the Trinnov Optimizer for full integration, and ditch the QSC entirely. The only caveat I would have is, I am a huge BEQ fan, so that would be a must, so i would prefer a minidsp for the sub control anyway, until Trinnov can support that ability.

One other note @jedi1982 , you may want to add VNF subs as well, as that tactile feeling really puts an experience to remember. If you are going to stick with the QSC Core, that would integrate those without issue.

Good luck on this build. Really enjoyed your last one as well.

 

Since @jedi1982 is using a Trinnov Altitude 16, the better reference would be the Trinnov Speaker Placement Layout.

I almost posted that doc instead . I decided to keep it generic as the other folks commenting may not have a Trinnov or know its capabilities.

The Trinnov doc is great! They are trying to get the most out of a given layout for all surround formats and speaker channel counts. Despite being from Trinnov, it’s applicable to everything and not just them.

The one thing I would add is that there’s a very specific comment (in bold) stating to the affect “place the speakers relative to the listening area”. I think the next set of diagrams shows surrounds in relation to the listening area in front of the front row.

As you noted, OP has a Trinnov which allows the user/calibrator to select the most appropriate rendering channel for a given speaker channel. That lets us designate surround speakers in front of the listening area with the appropriate Dolby channel to allow for proper rendering.

 

As far as using a QSC for further control speakers, in this case subs, IMHO, I would upgrade to a Altitude³² with 24 Ch,with (+4) capability, and assign all base layer/height/tops and subs through a single interface, levering the Trinnov Optimizer for full integration, and ditch the QSC entirely. The only caveat I would have is, I am a huge BEQ fan, so that would be a must, so i would prefer a minidsp for the sub control anyway, until Trinnov can support that ability.

EzBEQ also supports QSC. The main benefit over a Mini DSP would be balanced XLR inputs.

 

Does QSC have a standalone DSP or is this an amp with integrated DSP?

 

Exciting build! I can't wait for you to enjoy it!

The placements seem pretty reasonable to me. Left and right speakers are often too close together in home theaters, and while wides can bridge the gap between surrounds and the front channel, they aren't always active. If that front soundstage isn't perfect, wides can't make up for that. The side surrounds in front of the listener is also more common lately, and is required if using high back chairs. I would instead select some incliner back chairs.

I like the RS2s combined with RS1s, the RS2s lifted driver should also help with height modes. Getting the external amp version is smart, I'm over plate amp subwoofers. So the Core 110F is your miniDSP replacement? Seems reasonable, the only MiniDSP option I can find for balanced is the Flex and it's kinda mickey mouse to have such a top of the line theater and then toss in that little thing with it's volume control and TRS connectors.